Action in ROTJ extremely delayed

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Has everyone ever noticed how compared to every other Star Wars film where there is usually a big action scene within the first five minutes of the movie, ROTJ is an anomaly? Not counting the laser blast which is heard but occurs off-screen when Bouschh enters Jabba's Palace, we don't get a laser blast until Luke uses the Force to grab the blaster and Jabba opens the trapdoor to send him down to the Rancor pit. This is the first major scene of action in the movie. Since I have to guess as I don't have a copy of the film handy, I would say this occurs at least a half hour into the movie. Seems like a really long setup, although I personally don't mind it. It's also interesting to note that the film starts from the perspective of the Empire instead of the Rebels.
 
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Has everyone ever noticed how compared to every other Star Wars film where there is usually a big action scene within the first five minutes of the movie, ROTJ is an anomaly? Not counting the laser blast which is heard but occurs off-screen when Bouschh enters Jabba's Palace, we don't get a laser blast until Luke uses the Force to grab the blaster and Jabba opens the trapdoor to send him down to the Rancor pit. This is the first major scene of action in the movie. Since I have to guess as I don't have a copy of the film handy, I would say this occurs at least a half hour into the movie. Seems like a really long setup, although I personally don't mind it. It's also interesting to note that the film starts from the perspective of the Empire instead of the Rebels.
Empire doesn't have a huge action scene either until the Battle of Hoth. And that one also starts from the Empire's perspective, as they launch the Probe Droids from a Star Destroyer.
 
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Yeah, I considered both of these while posting but I would argue that the Wampa attack and subsequent escape is action and while we do see the Probe Droids being launched, we don't see any of the Imperials in person.
 
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I liked how the OT always opened with a Star Destroyer.

Prequal E3 RoTS also starts off this way and was an excellent bridge to the OT.

Something JJ got right with E7 TFA too, nice homage to the OT (which most agree he copied...)

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That is true, Jedi opens as a sort of slow burn. But you also have to think of the exponential growth between the OT's endings. ANH has one clear cut climax to end the story on: the Battle of Yavin. Empire then does two since the characters become split for most the narrative. So now you wrap up Luke's story with Vader, you wrap up Leia, Lando, and Chewie attempting and failing to rescue Han, and then the two mesh into one by the ending. So there's two main climax battles in Empire. And THEN you have a total of THREE with Jedi: You have Luke, Vader, and Palpatine in the throne room. There's Han and Leia on Endor attempting to destroy the shield generator with the Ewoks. Finally you have Lando and the space battle attempted and succeeding to destroy the second Death Star. So really, though Jedi doesn't really get an action scene till the Rancor...and even then that's more personal than the larger scale Pit of Carkoon battle a bit later, Jedi makes up for it with a MAJOR action filled ending bigger than the other two endings.

What's almost even crazier? Then you cut to Phantom Menace and what happens? There's FOUR climactic events. It even one-upped Jedi. The Gungans vs. the Trade Fed. droids, the lightsaber fight, the space battle with Anakin, and the palace storm with Amidala. Now for my money, I'd argue there is such thing as one too many and in this case, it's too many. Right when you get invested in one of the endings, it cuts to another and creates this level of dissonance.
 
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Now for my money, I'd argue there is such thing as one too many and in this case, it's too many. Right when you get invested in one of the endings, it cuts to another and creates this level of dissonance.
I believe there is footage in a documentary of Lucas watching the final cut of TPM and commenting on the fact that cutting between so many different events did not actually work.
 
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I believe there is footage in a documentary of Lucas watching the final cut of TPM and commenting on the fact that cutting between so many different events did not actually work.
There is actually, Ben Burt (sound designer) comments at the first screening with Lucas that in the span of very little time there are way too many cuts to difference scenes, all with different conflicting emotions behind them. You go from the utter seriousness of Qui-Gon being struck down to cartoonish Jar Jar gags. What that causes in a viewer is this sort of jarring mixed emotional response. It becomes confusing. How do they WANT me to feel? Do they want me to laugh...or do they want me to mourn? But it was agreed, unfortunately, that the project was so far into production it was simply too late and too close to release to change it. Basically, they were stuck with what they had, even when they themselves knew ..."Oh boy, this isn't good!"

Return of the Jedi came dangerously close to doing this, but I do think it ultimately was successful. But I can't deny, it's jarring going from the complete drama of the throne room or space battle...and cutting to teddy bears kicking butt.
 
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But it was agreed, unfortunately, that the project was so far into production it was simply too late and too close to release to change it. Basically, they were stuck with what they had, even when they themselves knew ..."Oh boy, this isn't good!"
I'm guessing by that point there was a release date scheduled and to try to reassemble all of that would be impossible against that deadline. It's interesting because Star Wars (A New Hope) was notoriously saved by the editing process when others intervened on Lucas' work.

Since I was a very young child when ROTJ was released, it took me years to consider the Ewoks as anything other than another element of the film/universe. Now that I'm 38 I can see why they would have been a bit jarring, especially in contrast to some of the more adult content in the first half of the film that happens in Jabba's Palace. But I think as you say the climax in Jedi does work overall.
 
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There is actually, Ben Burt (sound designer) comments at the first screening with Lucas that in the span of very little time there are way too many cuts to difference scenes, all with different conflicting emotions behind them. You go from the utter seriousness of Qui-Gon being struck down to cartoonish Jar Jar gags. What that causes in a viewer is this sort of jarring mixed emotional response. It becomes confusing. How do they WANT me to feel? Do they want me to laugh...or do they want me to mourn? But it was agreed, unfortunately, that the project was so far into production it was simply too late and too close to release to change it. Basically, they were stuck with what they had, even when they themselves knew ..."Oh boy, this isn't good!"

Return of the Jedi came dangerously close to doing this, but I do think it ultimately was successful. But I can't deny, it's jarring going from the complete drama of the throne room or space battle...and cutting to teddy bears kicking butt.
'Return of the Jedi' certainly had its moments of cringe. But, nothing compared to the nonsense that was in the prequels. Ultimately, Episode VI (the absolute original version now) hits the notes that it should do. It's serious enough, over all, but the lighter moments don't overwhelm it. Its most egregious moment was Chewie's Tarzan yell. I didn't care for that as a kid and I don't now. The Ewoks, I've made my peace with. But, I still lament the fact that they aren't wookiees.

The prequels on the other hand should have been three dark movies, focusing on why Anakin Skywalker turned to the dark side and became a mass murdering psychopath. But, the story ended up being so muddily put together, that his eventual fall seems rushed and stupid. Anakin ends up just looking like an idiot, who can't tell who the obvious bad guy is in the room. That, combined with the awful attempts at humour that mar the whole trilogy make them unwatchable gibberish. They're all just so intellectually insulting.
 
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'Return of the Jedi' certainly had its moments of cringe. But, nothing compared to the nonsense that was in the prequels. Ultimately, Episode VI (the absolute original version now) hits the notes that it should do. It's serious enough, over all, but the lighter moments don't overwhelm it. Its most egregious moment was Chewie's Tarzan yell. I didn't care for that as a kid and I don't now. The Ewoks, I've made my peace with. But, I still lament the fact that they aren't wookiees.

The prequels on the other hand should have been three dark movies, focusing on why Anakin Skywalker turned to the dark side and became a mass murdering psychopath. But, the story ended up being so muddily put together, that his eventual fall seems rushed and stupid. Anakin ends up just looking like an idiot, who can't tell who the obvious bad guy is in the room. That, combined with the awful attempts at humour that mar the whole trilogy make them unwatchable gibberish. They're all just so intellectually insulting.
That reminds me of something that's totally unintentionally funny about the prequels, but I never see anyone mention it. Why does it take force abilities to recognize that Palpatine is the Sith lord? Isn't it...common sense? Who's the one most benefiting from this situation? Who's the one gaining the most power? Even if you don't know he's the Sith lord, wouldn't it just make sense to at least investigate the guy? Especially because it's established that politicians are infamously corrupt, as in real life, and they make such a big deal out of how the Jedi are losing their touch with the force (a subplot that never made sense to me and never is thoroughly explained as to how...because they certainly don't seem like they are during all those over-the-top fight scenes) ...when really all it takes to want to look into Palpatine is a freaking brain. Then Anakin basically needs beaten over the head to figure it out, though he's essentially told about a dozen times, and what happens? He just seems to casually tell Mace, whom them just seems to casually react to Anakin at first.
 
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They're all just so intellectually insulting.
Yes, I don't think George Lucas had the same interest (or capability, take your pick) in building a mythology by the time he got to the prequel trilogy. That element is largely absent from those films, and what little is there seems either clumsy or over-explained. I haven't really watched them closely enough to pick them apart though.

Its most egregious moment was Chewie's Tarzan yell.
I must confess that it was not until fairly recently that I realized this was considered such a blemish on the original trilogy's legacy. Referencing another fictional universe definitely breaks the 4th wall. It's another thing I grew up with so I just accepted and never questioned it.
 
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Yes, I don't think George Lucas had the same interest (or capability, take your pick) in building a mythology by the time he got to the prequel trilogy. That element is largely absent from those films, and what little is there seems either clumsy or over-explained. I haven't really watched them closely enough to pick them apart though.



I must confess that it was not until fairly recently that I realized this was considered such a blemish on the original trilogy's legacy. Referencing another fictional universe definitely breaks the 4th wall. It's another thing I grew up with so I just accepted and never questioned it.
Sorta the same here. ROTJ was also a product of it's time, the early 80s where campiness was the norm.

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That reminds me of something that's totally unintentionally funny about the prequels, but I never see anyone mention it. Why does it take force abilities to recognize that Palpatine is the Sith lord? Isn't it...common sense? Who's the one most benefiting from this situation? Who's the one gaining the most power? Even if you don't know he's the Sith lord, wouldn't it just make sense to at least investigate the guy? Especially because it's established that politicians are infamously corrupt, as in real life, and they make such a big deal out of how the Jedi are losing their touch with the force (a subplot that never made sense to me and never is thoroughly explained as to how...because they certainly don't seem like they are during all those over-the-top fight scenes) ...when really all it takes to want to look into Palpatine is a freaking brain. Then Anakin basically needs beaten over the head to figure it out, though he's essentially told about a dozen times, and what happens? He just seems to casually tell Mace, whom them just seems to casually react to Anakin at first.
Totally agree. I'll simply play devil's advocate and state that politicians are supposed to be curruopt and duplicitous so I guess the Jedi looked past that :)

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That reminds me of something that's totally unintentionally funny about the prequels, but I never see anyone mention it. Why does it take force abilities to recognize that Palpatine is the Sith lord? Isn't it...common sense? Who's the one most benefiting from this situation? Who's the one gaining the most power? Even if you don't know he's the Sith lord, wouldn't it just make sense to at least investigate the guy? Especially because it's established that politicians are infamously corrupt, as in real life, and they make such a big deal out of how the Jedi are losing their touch with the force (a subplot that never made sense to me and never is thoroughly explained as to how...because they certainly don't seem like they are during all those over-the-top fight scenes) ...when really all it takes to want to look into Palpatine is a freaking brain. Then Anakin basically needs beaten over the head to figure it out, though he's essentially told about a dozen times, and what happens? He just seems to casually tell Mace, whom them just seems to casually react to Anakin at first.
Yeh, it's gas. I think in the PT there's a lot of folk trying to "outdumb" each other. The same is happening in the ST as well, it has to be said.

I remember watching the prequels with a young niece of mine and when Valorum got shafted, she said why are they being mean to that man? He seems niceer than the other fella (Palpatine). Even a six year old could get the vibe. But everyone on screen couldn't figure out that old Sheev was up to something.

Of course, she missed that Valorum's leadership was weak and he was having problems with bring corruption under control - she was only 6 - but, she could recognise a "good" man from a "bad" man.
 
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and yet grown adults missed the entire point of the entire thing. these "politiks" were meant to show how the jedi get their sense of direction -- to show where the Order gets it Moral Compass -- to show WHO (or WHAT) do they follow?

in the very first scene, the Legendary Jedi Knights of Old are going on a secret mission for the Chancellor Himself, (wtf?). they are government lapdogs(?). they do, whatever the politicians tell them(!?). they take their orders directly from the chancellor himself(!?)... and about three scenes later, the chancellor is replaced... so now what?

so now: the Jedi are going on secret missions for Sheev. so now: they do, whatever Sheev tells them. they take their orders directly from "Sheev himself". this illustrates the Entire Problem with the JEdi Order -- this illustrates exactly WHY (and how) the republic fell into darkness: it sets up the entire trilogy.

((insert: qui-gon's story arc))

the Jedi Order had forsaken the Will of the Force. instead, they were sworn to uphold the "will of the chancellor". regardless of WHO sits in that chair. Valoorum? Palpatine? who cares? it doesn't matter. the Jedi Order are sworn to a system of government. they NO LONGER uphold the will of the force. they uphold ONLY the will of the Senate.

when qui-gon preached "follow the will of the force" in the council chamber, Mace Windu physically rolled his eyes. the Jedi Order didn't care about qui-gon's "will of the force" mantra. they were too busy following the will of 'the Palpatine'. THEY HAD NO CHOICE. as illustrated in all those "politics" scenes in TPM which nobody wants to watch: the Jedi Order was SWORN to uphold the "Will of the Senate" -- they had NO AUTHORITY to simply "follow the will of the Force" anymore (LOL) even if they WANTED to (LOL) -- they surrendered their Moral Authority to the State, a thousand generations ago.

the fall of the Jedi Order is all about "separation of church and state". I'm not sure how you can tell this story without showing, at least, HOW the 'state' works LOL -- without illustrating the Jedi Order's subservient relationship to the Senate and its Chancellor. (regardless of WHO that chancellor actually IS -- the institution called "Jedi Order" does NOT care).

the Jedi Order had Mad Loyalty for Valorum. and when Valorum was replaced by Sheev, they had Mad Loyalty for Sheev. (that's the whole point).




so your six year old got it half-right. she recognized that Sheev was the "bad man". but it beggars the question : WHY was a Religious-Order-of-Warrior-Monks taking orders from "the Man", in the first place? ((why do they have NO moral authority over their OWN actions?)). when, and why, did they forsake their OWN "God", and swear fealty to a system of Government instead?

indeed : the Valorrum scenes in TPM show us : they had NO personal LOYALTY to Valorrum (the man) -- they are sworn to follow "the chancellor" (regardless if its Valorrum or Sheev) -- the institution called "Jedi Order" does not care, who they follow. (that's the whole point).

this is NOT because they were trying to "out dumb" each other LOL. :p it's because the "Union of Church and State" has left them NO CHOICE. :p they swore an oath, a thousand generations ago, to follow the Senate WHEREVER it leads -- even if it leads into Darkness.

they were SWORN to follow Sheev's Rule (just as they followed Valorum's) -- even if Sheev was PROVEN in TPM to be a full fledged sith lord on day#1 (legally speaking, it doesn't matter) -- they very MOMENT they take up arms against Sheev... they are ALL charged with Treason.

why? because: Politics. LOL

(because:Valorrum).

because: it's established, in the very first scene of the very first episode : the "Jedi Order" are going on "secret missions" for a "Chancellor" ((and the ADULTS in the audience did NOT question this..? at all..?)) :p LOL.
 
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Well, she was only 6. I don't think she was up to questioning the hierarchy of religious orders, separation of church and state, or the deeper political mechanisations of the galactic senate.

My point was really only limited to "obvious bad guy is obvious".
 
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but isn't that the setup for the entire thing?

- obvious "good guy" is in charge of the galaxy -- the Jedi are sworn to follow...
- obvious "Bad Guy" takes over the galaxy -- the Jedi are STILL sworn to follow....

....until they finally decide to (break the law and) do "the right thing".

((along the way: their hands are tied: they fight an Immoral War;
they lose their ability to commune with the Force;
the Force spawns a "Chosen One" (to wipe them ALL out;
to END their relationship-to-the-Senate, once and for all);
etc))

^^ without the 'setup' , there would be no story. :p
((there would be no "chosen one" (spawned BY the force), to Kill Them All!! (for IGNORING the force!!) LOL)).
the Fall of Vader would not happen.




ie : if it were revealed on day#1 that Sheev was an Obvious Bad Guy, the Jedi would say:
"..we can't follow this dude he's an Obvious Bad Guy", and they would be charged with treason. end of Trilogy.
(("separation of church and state" would be explained by a single line of dialog; the "Jedi Order" would SEE the error of their ways; the "chosen one" would NOT be spawned; the end)).

instead: GL explains the concept of "separation of church and state", using three whole movies, and 90% of the audience end up missing the point entirely.ROFL

(they have no idea why the chosen one 'killed-all-force-users-who-were-ignoring-the-will-of-the-force';
they have no idea why qui-gon was rewarded with IMMORTALITY for "following the will of the force";
they think these 2 plot points are somehow un-related -- that TPM has 'nothing to do with this trilogy' -- that it ONLY serves to "introduce characters").

((and they STILL bitch about "politics-in-SW" , some 20 years after the fact! :p LOL)). it's priceless.
 
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and yet grown adults missed the entire point of the entire thing. these "politiks" were meant to show how the jedi get their sense of direction -- to show where the Order gets it Moral Compass -- to show WHO (or WHAT) do they follow?

in the very first scene, the Legendary Jedi Knights of Old are going on a secret mission for the Chancellor Himself, (wtf?). they are government lapdogs(?). they do, whatever the politicians tell them(!?). they take their orders directly from the chancellor himself(!?)... and about three scenes later, the chancellor is replaced... so now what?

so now: the Jedi are going on secret missions for Sheev. so now: they do, whatever Sheev tells them. they take their orders directly from "Sheev himself". this illustrates the Entire Problem with the JEdi Order -- this illustrates exactly WHY (and how) the republic fell into darkness: it sets up the entire trilogy.

((insert: qui-gon's story arc))

the Jedi Order had forsaken the Will of the Force. instead, they were sworn to uphold the "will of the chancellor". regardless of WHO sits in that chair. Valoorum? Palpatine? who cares? it doesn't matter. the Jedi Order are sworn to a system of government. they NO LONGER uphold the will of the force. they uphold ONLY the will of the Senate.

when qui-gon preached "follow the will of the force" in the council chamber, Mace Windu physically rolled his eyes. the Jedi Order didn't care about qui-gon's "will of the force" mantra. they were too busy following the will of 'the Palpatine'. THEY HAD NO CHOICE. as illustrated in all those "politics" scenes in TPM which nobody wants to watch: the Jedi Order was SWORN to uphold the "Will of the Senate" -- they had NO AUTHORITY to simply "follow the will of the Force" anymore (LOL) even if they WANTED to (LOL) -- they surrendered their Moral Authority to the State, a thousand generations ago.

the fall of the Jedi Order is all about "separation of church and state". I'm not sure how you can tell this story without showing, at least, HOW the 'state' works LOL -- without illustrating the Jedi Order's subservient relationship to the Senate and its Chancellor. (regardless of WHO that chancellor actually IS -- the institution called "Jedi Order" does NOT care).

the Jedi Order had Mad Loyalty for Valorum. and when Valorum was replaced by Sheev, they had Mad Loyalty for Sheev. (that's the whole point).




so your six year old got it half-right. she recognized that Sheev was the "bad man". but it beggars the question : WHY was a Religious-Order-of-Warrior-Monks taking orders from "the Man", in the first place? ((why do they have NO moral authority over their OWN actions?)). when, and why, did they forsake their OWN "God", and swear fealty to a system of Government instead?

indeed : the Valorrum scenes in TPM show us : they had NO personal LOYALTY to Valorrum (the man) -- they are sworn to follow "the chancellor" (regardless if its Valorrum or Sheev) -- the institution called "Jedi Order" does not care, who they follow. (that's the whole point).

this is NOT because they were trying to "out dumb" each other LOL. it's because the "Union of Church and State" has left them NO CHOICE. they swore an oath, a thousand generations ago, to follow the Senate WHEREVER it leads -- even if it leads into Darkness.

they were SWORN to follow Sheev's Rule (just as they followed Valorum's) -- even if Sheev was PROVEN in TPM to be a full fledged sith lord on day#1 (legally speaking, it doesn't matter) -- they very MOMENT they take up arms against Sheev... they are ALL charged with Treason.

why? because: Politics. LOL

(because:Valorrum).

because: it's established, in the very first scene of the very first episode : the "Jedi Order" are going on "secret missions" for a "Chancellor" ((and the ADULTS in the audience did NOT question this..? at all..?)) LOL.
I agree.

Yet this is still lost probably on half the adult audience who just sees light swords and fast spaceships zooming around....

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I agree.

Yet this is still lost probably on half the adult audience who just sees light swords and fast spaceships zooming around....

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Yup. When I went to see TLJ, I was with a group of people: Fathers with their sons/daughters. One of those fathers said something in the lines of this:
"We hope there are more lightsabers in this one. We felt there was too few of them in the last one" (Rogue One). ... I smiled politely and said nothing.
 
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I agree.

Yet this is still lost probably on half the adult audience who just sees light swords and fast spaceships zooming around....

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To be fair, when you throw in stuff like Jar Jar and Jake Lloyd's acting, even those people looking for the deeper meaning, will start paying a little less attention.
I do like TPM though. Even though I still cringe at some of it, I think I cringe a little less at Jake Lloyd than I do Hayden Christiansen, and it helps to know that Jar Jar's dumb *** is integral to the downfall of the republic.


Also to the topic at hand, of Return of the Jedi, after like 35 years I just noticed the black EV-9D9 droid on the Star Destroyer's bridge, last year.
 
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I just wish they could take the horrible cartoon Joh Yowza out of my face in Jabba's Palace. I am fine with 90% of the 'special edition' changes but that one (I believe) is the cringiest moment of the OT for me. I'm good with the drummers and singers and frog harmonica players.... or ... well.... yeah I can live with that I guess.

I actually like the opening with Vader and then the droids going to Jabba's palace. We see 2 of the biggest parts of the plot in the first 5 minutes.

Also to the topic at hand, of Return of the Jedi, after like 35 years I just noticed the black EV-9D9 droid on the Star Destroyer's bridge, last year.
I see something new every year it seems... You ever notice the odd treadwell/mouse droids in the opening scene on Death Star II?
 
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I see something new every year it seems... You ever notice the odd treadwell/mouse droids in the opening scene on Death Star II?
Yeah I noticed them, took a long time, but eventually did see them. Another thing I may have spotted for the first time recently, is what I believe is Vader's TIE Fighter in the hanger. I saw it along time ago, but I always assumed it was a TIE Bomber hanging in there, then I looked closer, and I think it looks more like Vader's TIE.
 
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I wished I'd known about that site when I was making my model of R5D4. Would have come in handy.
 
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my daughter is into cosplay, this site is a godsend for references.
we've used it for everything, from Padme & Leia to wonder woman & black widow.
 
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Wow! This is fantastic. I had no idea this site existed.

Worth mentioning while on the subject: Watching the opening minutes of ROTJ outside of the context of the rest of the movie, this is a rare moment in the original trilogy where we see Imperial Officers and the Death Squad Commander simply going about their business without being an immediate threat to the Rebels. Until the Imperial Officer that I believe is named Endicott speaks the line "Inform the commander that Lord Vader's shuttle has arrived" in a fairly menacing tone, it would be easy to mistake these characters as being on the protagonists' side if you didn't have any prior context.
 
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Wow! This is fantastic. I had no idea this site existed.

Worth mentioning while on the subject: Watching the opening minutes of ROTJ outside of the context of the rest of the movie, this is a rare moment in the original trilogy where we see Imperial Officers and the Death Squad Commander simply going about their business without being an immediate threat to the Rebels. Until the Imperial Officer that I believe is named Endicott speaks the line "Inform the commander that Lord Vader's shuttle has arrived" in a fairly menacing tone, it would be easy to mistake these characters as being on the protagonists' side if you didn't have any prior context.
I'm replying to my own comment here but it occurred to me that Endicott was featured again in the deleted scenes with Jerjerrod on Death Star 2 with the whole dilemma of blowing up the forest moon at the Emperor's command. This would have been a fourth storyline in the film's climax and was likely (though unfortunately as it would have provided some humanity to the Empire) removed because it was one too many things going on. As we mentioned earlier, this many storylines was the error of The Phantom Menace's climax.
 
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Yep, you are absolutely right.
I always thought it was, then the last time I was watching ROTJ it was the un-remastered DVD version, and the picture was cropped just enough to obscure the obvious parts that clearly identify it as a Bomber.
Also, that site is fantastic! Never knew it existed.
 
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Yep, you are absolutely right.
I always thought it was, then the last time I was watching ROTJ it was the un-remastered DVD version, and the picture was cropped just enough to obscure the obvious parts that clearly identify it as a Bomber.
Also, that site is fantastic! Never knew it existed.
Of course now I feel like a real ***, in watching ROTJ over the weekend, I just remembered/re-saw that they very clearly show the top of the TIE Bomber while Vader's shuttle is landing. :rolleyes:

Something else that struck me, watching ROTJ, we always think of the AT-ST crews being 2-man, shouldn't they be 3-man?
The AT-ST that Chewie steals, had three people in it.

One- gets shot by Leia as soon as the action starts.
Two- gets tossed by Chewie
Three- gets beat up by the Ewoks.

Also noticed that the ROTJ AT-ST's still had the "achilles tendon" on them (like the ESB film version and the vintage/POTF2 mold does) even though the BAT-ST toy does not.
 
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There was quite a bit of time between Leia shooting the crew member and Chewie boarding the AT-ST. Perhaps a surplus driver got on board in the mean time?

I think those tendons were omitted from the Legacy-mold AT-STs to maximize posability. Less movable toys and models often have the tendons.
 
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There were multiple AT-ST's in that battle. Do we know for sure that the same AT-ST guy that Leia shot at was the same AT-ST that Chewy commandeers later?
 
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Both AT-STs have the exact same diagonal blaster damage on the nose panel. The one replicated in the TVC release and TAC ultimate battle pack.
 
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There was quite a bit of time between Leia shooting the crew member and Chewie boarding the AT-ST. Perhaps a surplus driver got on board in the mean time?
Possible, however it seems awfully risky to lower the AT-ST to let another crew member climb in while they are in the heat of a full out war. Between the new crew member getting shot while climbing in, or having a rebel or Ewok getting in, or throwing a thermal detonator in, when they have the hatch open.
Also, there are no AT-ST drivers shown on the ground with the other troops. They are only ever shown in the walkers. So unless we are to believe that they were "just off screen", where would he have come from?


I think those tendons were omitted from the Legacy-mold AT-STs to maximize posability. Less movable toys and models often have the tendons.
I don't think it would've hindered the articulation at all, though. It didn't need to be actually connected to the "heel", just rest against it like the vintage mold.
I wonder if they actually left it off on purpose, or if it was just a mistake on their part.
 
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Possible, however it seems awfully risky to lower the AT-ST to let another crew member climb in while they are in the heat of a full out war. Between the new crew member getting shot while climbing in, or having a rebel or Ewok getting in, or throwing a thermal detonator in, when they have the hatch open.
Also, there are no AT-ST drivers shown on the ground with the other troops. They are only ever shown in the walkers. So unless we are to believe that they were "just off screen", where would he have come from?
My guess would be that the AT-STs having the same battle damage is a continuity error. They used the same model for different instances of a walker.

However, if Leia shoots the one AT-ST driver right at the beginning of the battle, surely the other occupant must have started moving around in it during the battle. Otherwise there would be a a stray AT-ST hanging around near the bunker the whole battle.
 
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Well sure, the damage itself isn't proof it's the same AT-ST

Even in AotC all Clones have the same exact battle damage, even though changing the CGI textures would be much easier and cheaper than building a new AT-ST stop motion model.
 
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Well sure, the damage itself isn't proof it's the same AT-ST

Even in AotC all Clones have the same exact battle damage, even though changing the CGI textures would be much easier and cheaper than building a new AT-ST stop motion model.
That's odd that they would choose to do it that way. Seems like an oversight in attention to detail.

Come to think of it, what was that AT-ST driver doing hanging out up top looking at the scenery? The battle had already started. He should have been down the hatch already. He's the most deserving to die character in Star Wars.
 
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