A Guide to ebay's non-fuctioning checkout system and abuse by users

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Because a few scummers here have cried "fowl" on calling out sellers who either abuse the glitches/holes in ebay's checkout system or simply refuse to help when something goes awry, I thought I would take a moment to outline what I have witnessed and documented so that everyone can have a better, more well-rounded understanding of how the checkout system works, what possibly may be going wrong with it, and why the other party should provide assistance when it happens. I am detecting a strong element around here of distrust and disbelief. Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It just means you have been lucky :)

Perhaps if we start a dialogue specifically about the technical problems with poor design on ebay without finger-pointing (except possibly at ebay), that might help alleviate some of the animosity between users here on the RS watch-out threads when someone reports a problem with another user. We can dispel some myths and even document what is going on for those who seem to want to disbelieve, or those who have not experienced these problems so that they may be prepared if/when it does finally happen.


If replying to this thread, please do not quote specific member's names involved in transactions, whether they are RS members or non-RS ebay members, real names or handles. This thread is specifically designed to report & describe glitches and dysfunction of both technical and policy nature, to encourage solutions and illustrate the causes & effects. I don't want this thread to become another master list of users to avoid on ebay (buyer OR seller). So please keep names confidential when responding and describing your experiences or when providing documentation, if possible.

If you have seen similar things to what I describe, but your experience differed slightly your input may be invaluable! So please do describe anything remotely similar. A minor difference in your glitch compared to my glitch could shed some light.


I will start by describing my own experiences and what I have deduced as the root cause of them, debunking a few myths about checkout & payment as I go. I will not address bidding glitches or blocks here. Only what happens once the listing has ended & it's time to pay.


NOTE: Ebay now supports both standard web browser as well as an app designed and promoted by ebay for use on mobile devices. If your mobile device is like mine, you may be able to use either of these on the same device to compare/contrast. What I describe below is basically the same on both systems.

Because ebay allows a user to register a new account from the mobile app, exclusively using ebay on their mobile device, it would be inappropriate to blame any action on a user for using an app in favor of the traditional browser or vice versa, and because a user may exit the app and use their browser instead, I do not draw a distinction between them in my descriptions here.

The process must work properly for either browser or mobile app without requiring the user to go to another device in order for ebay to offer it to the consumer. So please refrain from responding to this thread and blaming people solely for using a mobile device as the root of all evil. It's not. I had problems with ebay checkout going back over 2 years, long before I ever had a smart phone.

That said, I suspect that ebay's inclusion of mobile devices into their system may be adding to glitches in their system recently, but cannot seem to document it at this point. Do you have further insight? Please share, but be nice to mobile users.


THE NORMAL CHECKOUT PROCESS:
After the buyer has won the bid or committed to a buy-it-now purchase, the listing has ended and now appears on the buyer's list of "won" items in myEbay, we should all be able to agree this happens:

Step1: On the item listing page, myebay page, or from the e-mail invoice link, the buyer hits the "pay now" button. The buyer is provided a page on which to confirm the item details, price, shipping, and shipping address.
(I am not addressing the multiple seller payment option here, as it not available to all users and I don't use it, so I can't document it)

Step2: On the order details page, the buyer has an opportunity to change the delivery address, and doing so brings the user back to the previous order details page with any changes that have been made.

Step3: The buyer is prompted to hit another button to continue, which connects them to another page with a paypal interface. The buyer is prompted to log into paypal. After login, on the sebsequent page, the buyer is allowed to choose their payment source, if they have more than one on their paypal account, and hit the "complete payment" button. Doing so brings the buyer back to either the listing page where it says at the top "You have paid for this item" or their myebay page which says "PAID" across the item title or may have a dollar sign icon, depending on their browser style.

Step4: The buyer receives two or three e-mails confirming their order: The first usually comes from ebay and says "Confirmation of your order". The second is your receipt from paypal. Some users may also receive a third e-mail, which comes from paypal, stating that a mobile payment was sent, if using a mobile device.


MYTH: The paypal interface is part of the ebay website.
FACT: The paypal interface is actually a connection between ebay & paypal separate websites, even though ebay owns paypal. Paypal is a totally different site and is used on other retail sites in the same way. Anyone who shops Etsy, Amazon, Bonanza, etc, knows this step of the process looks exactly the same on all of them, because it's the paypal website being shown within the retail site, ebay included. It's like a window within a window: a website within a website.

So your payment, even though paid through paypal, is not being processed by ebay. When paypal completes the transaction it sends a confirmation back to the ebay website (or other retail site) telling it payment was remitted.

THEREFORE: We can deduce from this that it may be where/when the problems are occurring. As I have not seen this problem when using paypal on other retail websites, I can deduce from this that the problems lie within ebay's website on their checkout system.


MYTH: The seller always knows when the buyer pays, because it says so on their myEbay or they can see it in their paypal account.
FACT: It has been documented on several occasions that checkout can be completed without the seller's knowledge. I have seen completed checkout all the way through the process, including the confirmation page from ebay that says "You have paid for this item" and the myEbay page on the buyer's account which says in red capitol letters "PAID" across the item title.

Yet the seller does not receive the payment nor any confirmation from ebay about the payment. From my selling days (it has been a couple of years, so it may have changed by now) this might look like a shopping cart icon on the seller's account instead of a dollar sign indicating a payment received, or it simply may have no sign at all. Back in those days when I sold it was normally the result of a buyer choosing a payment method not supported by the seller, but since that time ebay eliminated that function. So this should not be happening now, as most sellers only accept paypal with no other options, and if it is happening on paypal-only listings, that indicates a glitch within the checkout system on that particular item. (system glitch left over from pre-shopping cart days?)


MYTH: If the buyer's payment was not received during checkout there is nothing for the seller to do, and the buyer has to make payment through ebay checkout a second time.
FACT: Ebay's checkout system does not always allow a buyer to go through checkout more than once without the seller's action, if it registered on the seller's account (such as the shopping-cart scenario described above).

A seller who gets a shopping cart icon in their myEbay sold items without receiving a payment must send a new invoice to the buyer in order to open up the checkout system again. Unfortunately, ebay will allow the seller in most cases to open an unpaid item dispute without providing the consumer a new invoice, and therefore when the buyer has no way to remit the payment on the ebay site for having already tried it unsuccessfully, they are left in a catch22 scenario: payment authorization sent, not processed by ebay, but demanded by seller, and no payment options available. This is one way that some users (both buyers and sellers) are abusing this loophole in the system.

I have also witnessed a few cases where the 'PAID' status of the item disappeared off the buyer's account in a period of about 24-48 hours for unknown reasons. In looking at banking history, it appears as if an authorization hold is being placed on the account of the buyer by paypal, but the subsequent step of claiming the funds from the transaction from paypal is not processed, causing the item to revert to unpaid and the funds in the buyer's account to be released and not transferred to the seller after a 24-48 hour window (would that be paypal or ebay problem?).

There are no notices or error messages from either paypal or ebay when this occurs. It may well appear to the buyer as a completed payment, as during this time the buyer's account says "PAID", yet the seller's account says nothing, and if the buyer attempts to pay again is blocked by ebay from doing so. In some cases ebay has sent a "Confirmation of your order" e-mail which is never accompanied by any e-mail notification from paypal that would contain a receipt.
It can get quite confusing.


MYTH: The buyer knows they didn't pay when the seller doesn't get the money.
FACT: As stated previously, it is entirely possible for a buyer's account to say "PAID" and on the item page at the top to say "You have paid for this item" after the buyer completes checkout, authorizing the payment, even though the seller does not receive the money. In my cases I was even able to see my creditcard balance increase, making me believe the payment had gone through, only to find it decrease again 2 days later as the authorization hold evaporated and the item reverted to unpaid. In some cases a buyer may be able to try checkout again if the "PAID" status also evaporates off the account, and in some cases they may be blocked by ebay from doing so, requiring the seller to reset the transaction by sending a new invoice.

Now I have not been tracking this for very long, but what I have noticed in the last case where this happened, the seller received my payment twice and refunded me both times (out of a total checkout attempt and payment authorization of 6 times). I received 3 "Confirmation of your order" e-mails from ebay but no payment receipts from paypal. When the seller manually refunded two payments, only then did I receive a paypal receipt of refund money.

If this happens to you, you may want to follow your e-mail receipts carefully. If you are receiving notices from ebay that say "Confirmation of you order" that are not accompanied by e-receipts from paypal, it may indicate a faulty checkout on that item.


ERROR MESSAGES AND SIGNS OF TROUBLE:

1. SELLER'S END: The buyer seems to be taking a long time to pay, so you contact them to ask why or they contact you to ask why they have not received it, and they reply that they already paid. Yet you check and cannot find the payment.

The worst thing you can do is to write back with a bad attitude telling the other party they are lying or scamming, etc. Double check your account, confirm it, send a new invoice, informing the buyer cordially that you did not receive the payment, and ask them to please check out again. If it persists numerous times, your buyer may well give up and ask to be let out of it, and in that case you should probably oblige. Don't blame your buyer for ebay issues or delivery issues. It only leads to animosity and fights.

A bid is not a lotto ticket, and it's bad business to treat it as such. You are not entitled to the money just because the auction ended with a bidder. You still have service standards and warranty of merchantability by law. The buyer has to want the item, and must continue to want the item more than the $ even after they receive it and you have their money. A little humility goes a long way when selling.

2. BUYER'S END: Most often you know you have a problem when you get an error message telling you so. Ebay error messages often have the ebay name somewhere on them, either in the text of the error message or at the header of a popup bubble. The popup bubbles on ebay's mobile app are shaped differently than the average phone error message bubbles, so you know they are part of ebay's system and not your equipment. But don't be afraid to tell the seller you are experiencing trouble and to ask for help. That is the seller's job. A seller's job does not stop once the bid is won or once the item is delivered. On the other hand, it's equally bad form for a buyer to simply ignore their transaction for long periods of time when something goes wrong. Keep communication open, document everything, and be precise when responding to ask for help.

Here is a reference list of error messages that I have encountered, how frequently, whether or not I got around them, and when they appeared:

"Network Error. Please try again." This error message may pop up at any point during the checkout process, between any of the steps listed above in the typical checkout description. It is the most common error message I have seen and usually not a big deal. I was able to proceed to the next action in spite of them in most cases. Sometimes the message will remain on screen as I continue to the next step of the checkout. Weird, I know, but it doesn't seem to effect anything, most of the time. A few times, it blocked me from proceeding through checkout and shot me back to the previous page. I have logged out of ebay and logged back in to get rid of this error message when it was preventing me from doing something. I am uncertain if that fixed the problem or not, as I typically saw it pop up again later for certain transactions. However, I do not think it led to any unpaid items or non-delivery and seems to be a simple nuisance.

"Quantity Invalid. Someone else is already attempting to order this item" during step1 or step2 of checkout as noted above. Most common for buy-now transactions, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense does it? You're getting this error message after you have already hit the buy-now and committed to purchase the piece. You are in fact getting an error message preventing you from checking out for the item for the reason that you are the one in the midst of checkout for that item. Go ahead: LAUGH! I find it rather raucous myself. :grin:
You can't check out for this item right now because you are checking out for this item right now!!! lol
I got around this error message by asking the seller to cancel my bid and replacing it later. After having purchased the item the second time, I waited a few more days before checking out, and it allowed me to complete the purchase on the second attempt.

"Payment cannot be completed at this time, because you are buying from a country where the payment type is not supported" I am paraphrasing the most on this one, as it was quite some time ago the last I saw it, and was able to get around it by logging out and logging back into ebay. It seems that ebay cannot maintain the information on where the user is located. It happens during step1 as described above when hitting the pay now button. With this error message, the "pay now" button usually says "Payment options" instead, which is your first clue something is wrong. This happens even when the buyer and seller are located in the same country. Ebay has denied the existence of this error message, but I have seen it on several occasions, and almost always with users who are both located in the US, making it all the more mysterious (and humorous). If it happens to you, recommend log out and log back in before completing checkout. This got rid of the bug in my case, and I completed checkout on a subsequent pass.

"Ebay's payment module is not available for this item at this time" This error message is the WORST that you can encounter, and the one that ebay seems most interested in covering up. It happens during step1 above, so the buyer is never given an opportunity to confirm the order or process the payment. The seller will not have any knowledge or warning of it. I only had this error message happen with one seller, it persisted and prevented me from checking out. I never received my order as a result and was given unpaid item strikes as a result of it. Ebay denies the existence of this error message. If you get this error message, PLEASE document it if possible. This is the most abusive one I know of.


I believe there are a couple more, but these are the primary ones I know, have notated, and remember clearly.


ABUSE BY EBAY USERS

Unfortunately there are some ebay members who cannot see past the end of their own noses, and they feel that since it's ebay they don't have to provide customer service or they don't have to follow up on a transaction. Why should they? Ebay has customer service, and after all, ebay designed the site, not the seller or the buyer. These are the people who say they are "only a seller" or "only a buyer" and refuse to lift a finger when a problem is reported. But what do you do when ebay fails in its service standards? or passes the buck back onto the other party? Just leave the other person stranded?

The bottom line is that it takes both users to overcome these problems, and what we have seen from ebay support in many cases is a lack of service, an extreme difficulty in getting help (it once took me 2 1/2 months to get a response), or a cover-up of glitches they don't want the public to know about. Lies, denial, and blaming the user for their own glitches: that's typical ebay customer service for you.

When I have had these problems myself, in most cases it was overcome simply by informing the other party and seeking an alternative. Sometimes the alternative was payment outside the ebay site (usually with paypal direct payment/invoicing), or involved resetting checkout so that I could simply try again, or in a couple of occasions involved cancelling when no other option presented itself, and most times involved a simple, courteous, helpful attitude, communication, cooperation and patience. That is what is missing from the people who ended up being called out in watch-out threads here on RS.

The few watch-outs I have felt necessary in posting here were NOT solely for checkout or delivery problems (nor do I recommend calling out a seller solely on site glitches or failure of carrier to deliver), but rather for users who abused the defective checkout system for their own interests at the expense of the other party. Let's be clear about that here. It takes much more than just a faulty checkout system for any user to end up in a watch-out thread.

It's clear that some sellers are attempting to use these deficiencies in the checkout system to back out of transactions without using the appropriate cancellation request provided by ebay, to avoid reporting of user to ebay for policy violation or consumer fraud, or to simply harass the other party for needing assistance, out of a feeling of having to exert oneself more than anticipated. There also seems to be a feeling among these users of immunity from having to provide help of any kind to the other party, because they are using the third-party system of ebay to buy or sell. That's not right.

2 years ago, as a seller, it led to a buyer claiming money back from me that I had never received to begin with. Most recently it resulted in non-delivery of items I did pay for, and a subsequent healthy dose of fictitious unpaid item strikes. Is this really necessary?


Those people around here who asking "what do you expect them to do?" and "you expect them to call ebay and fix it" the answer is resoundingly YES. If I have to call in, why don't they? And after I did call in and ask for help and didn't get anywhere, why didn't they pick up and help me from there? and why are you telling me it is solely for me to do when I have just told you how I already bent over backward doing something from my end?

I guess the point is
It's a 2-way street. You can't just sit there and say one party can sit on its hands, and it's entirely the other party's "problem". That's nonsense. It's equally the "problem" of both parties, so be aware of the pitfalls I have described above, be respectful of the other party, and get off your "hands" and do something about it when called upon.

It IS your responsibility, even if the problem happened on ebay on their software or website, even if it happened during an action the other person tried to complete. You have an ethical business obligation to assist in fixing it. How can you just sit there and throw up your hands, saying it's the other person's "Problem" when the other person has already exhausted all avenues, and you are the one with the power to resolve it?

Be kind. Be helpful. Be flexible. Do what you are able to do. Is that so difficult?
 
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I will try and read it later....I promise.
 

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Dan. I think you need to take a break. I have actually bought from and spoke with Dan in the past and he is a really nice guy....not sure what the issues are....but it may be better to keep them to yourself.
 
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Dan. I think you need to take a break. I have actually bought from and spoke with Dan in the past and he is a really nice guy....not sure what the issues are....but it may be better to keep them to yourself.

Agree 100% with Todd here. My dealings with Dan have all been positive and he is a genuine guy. I think that it is probably best to put this to bed now
 
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I've read just passed your "error messages and signs of trouble." What mobile device are you using and what is your data connection like? I don't think I've ever had an error message from the Ebay app in the 3+ years that I've been an iPhone user or if I did it was because I was in an area where the service wasn't very good.

This from your other thread

I am available to my customers very easily by smart phone. I have e-mail, text, and voice, from a woodshop in the middle of nowhere. Even if I am working in the shop, I can still connect with people here. It's not as if I am difficult to reach.

has me wondering what your connection is like. Are you relying on your mobile carrier(Verizon, AT&T, etc) for the data connection or do you have WIFI in the shop on a solid internet connection? Maybe things are timing out while you are going through the checkout process?

I know you want to blame Ebay, but this really sounds like something on your end. If it was Ebay/Paypal then everyone would be having the same problem and there'd be a mass amount of threads on their support site and tech sites talking about it.
 
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Dan have you tried deleting your temporary Internet files and clearing your cache? Sometimes corrupt files located in either one could cause your issues.
 
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Because a few scummers here have cried "fowl"

Isn't it 'foul'? I for one haven't complained about any birds. :)


MYTH: The seller always knows when the buyer pays, because it says so on their myEbay or they can see it in their paypal account.
FACT: It has been documented on several occasions that checkout can be completed without the seller's knowledge. I have seen completed checkout all the way through the process, including the confirmation page from ebay that says "You have paid for this item" and the myEbay page on the buyer's account which says in red capitol letters "PAID" across the item title.

Yet the seller does not receive the payment nor any confirmation from ebay about the payment. From my selling days (it has been a couple of years, so it may have changed by now) this might look like a shopping cart icon on the seller's account instead of a dollar sign indicating a payment received, or it simply may have no sign at all. Back in those days when I sold it was normally the result of a buyer choosing a payment method not supported by the seller, but since that time ebay eliminated that function. So this should not be happening now, as most sellers only accept paypal with no other options, and if it is happening on paypal-only listings, that indicates a glitch within the checkout system on that particular item. (system glitch left over from pre-shopping cart days?)

This should be reworded to reflect it from the seller's perspective. "The seller always knows when they have received payment."

If I haven't received payment, I don't ship. End of story. There are enough scammers on ebay that there is no chance I'm taking a complete stranger's word and shipping without payment in my paypal. If the buyer is having a problem, and the seller is not aware of it, guess who is responsible for letting the other know? ;)


MYTH: If the buyer's payment was not received during checkout there is nothing for the seller to do, and the buyer has to make payment through ebay checkout a second time.

If the problem is between a buyer and the checkout system, exactly what do you expect the seller to do? Call ebay, and give them a motivational speech to correct it?

A bid is not a lotto ticket, and it's bad business to treat it as such. You are not entitled to the money just because the auction ended with a bidder.

Wrong. Flat out wrong. You insist on holding people to certain ebay rules and 'consumer law', so I'll directly quote ebay.

ebay said:
You must pay for any item you buy.
Many of the items on eBay are sold in an auction-style format where you can make bids. Bidding is a lot of fun, but remember that each bid you make is a binding contract to buy the item if you win. The same is true for Buy It Now purchases. Not paying for an item after you have agreed to buy it has some negative consequences, which are explained in our unpaid item policy.
You can only bid if you really intend to buy the item, even if you're making a non-binding bid.
Non-binding bids can only be made on certain items, like real estate and vehicles, but they still mean that you are seriously interested in buying the item. The bottom line is, don't place any bid unless you mean it.



It's clear that some sellers are attempting to use these deficiencies in the checkout system to back out of transactions without using the appropriate cancellation request provided by ebay, to avoid reporting of user to ebay for policy violation or consumer fraud, or to simply harass the other party for needing assistance, out of a feeling of having to exert oneself more than anticipated.

Or maybe this is an assumption on your part, and sellers are simply wary of a potential scam when the system is telling them they have not been paid as claimed by the buyer.

Those people around here who asking "what do you expect them to do?" and "you expect them to call ebay and fix it" the answer is resoundingly YES. If I have to call in, why don't they? And after I did call in and ask for help and didn't get anywhere, why didn't they pick up and help me from there? and why are you telling me it is solely for me to do when I have just told you how I already bent over backward doing something from my end?

Because the problem is between you and ebay/paypal. As I stated above, motivational speeches from sellers to ebay probably won't do much.

You can't just sit there and say one party can sit on its hands, and it's entirely the other party's "problem". That's nonsense. It's equally the "problem" of both parties, so be aware of the pitfalls I have described above, be respectful of the other party, and get off your "hands" and do something about it when called upon.

No, if the system works for the seller otherwise, it's a problem the buyer must resolve.

It IS your responsibility, even if the problem happened on ebay on their software or website, even if it happened during an action the other person tried to complete. You have an ethical business obligation to assist in fixing it. How can you just sit there and throw up your hands, saying it's the other person's "Problem" when the other person has already exhausted all avenues, and you are the one with the power to resolve it?

If the seller could do anything, they should. BUT, if you have a recurring issue, you need to resolve it before you continue to bid on items and create chaos. Ebay is not a 'business' for most sellers - it's more like an online garage sale. Do you walk up and down the streets in the summer, shouting at people running garage sales that they have ethical business obligations?

The real problem here Dan is that you have an abnormal number of issues with ebay, it stems from something on your end, but you want to blame ebay, and worse, sellers, for being uncooperative. And you continue to do so despite multiple people trying to explain otherwise to you. The end result is that people are starting to tune out your 'watch out' posts as simply more complaining about issues that are barely the other party's fault, if at all. The crime here is that one day you're going to warn us about a true scammer, and no one is going to pay any attention. There was a story that covered this phenomenon.

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Maybe the Dingo ate your Ebaby? :)

I've read just passed your "error messages and signs of trouble." What mobile device are you using and what is your data connection like? I don't think I've ever had an error message from the Ebay app in the 3+ years that I've been an iPhone user or if I did it was because I was in an area where the service wasn't very good.

This from your other thread



has me wondering what your connection is like. Are you relying on your mobile carrier(Verizon, AT&T, etc) for the data connection or do you have WIFI in the shop on a solid internet connection? Maybe things are timing out while you are going through the checkout process?

I know you want to blame Ebay, but this really sounds like something on your end. If it was Ebay/Paypal then everyone would be having the same problem and there'd be a mass amount of threads on their support site and tech sites talking about it.
 
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Wow, I read the entire manifesto. I think you should get a better online service system. All those glitches sounds like your computer/internet connection is strained. The only times I had any kind of problems that your stating in the years I have bought or sold anything is when my internet connection was weak from inclimate weather causing interference with my ISP. Step back and relax for a while. Your a good guy and this seems to be affecting you.
 
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Interestingly, I was bidding on an item yesterday (sadly, I lost as the bidding went wildly out of control) - anyhow, the seller included in his description the following:

We accept PayPal as our prefered method of payment. If you are having problems with your PayPal account, please contact us before bidding to see if alternate payment methods can be arranged.

To be clear, this is different from excusing the "I'm having trouble paying" which he also covers with the following:

Payment should be made within 4 days of auction end per ebay policy. If there is a problem with sending payment within 4 days, please contact us immediately and let us know what the issue is.

To me it seems like sellers are running into issues with payment checkout. Might not be common, but not a bad idea to include something like this in the auction description to help avoid a nasty dusty-up and/or an incident which leads to a negative.
 
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Dan , You mention in a vast number of posts including the original one on this thread “Consumer Law”. My question is where are you getting your information in regards to “Consumer Law”? Did you go to Law School? Can you post some links as to where you are getting your information on “Consumer Law”

(Removed part about multiple Ebay Id's. I was incorrect on my posting)
 
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Ahhh, my mistake I appologize and will edit the post.

I still want to know about the whole "Consumer Law" thing though...
 
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That's quite an essay. Pity so much of it is just wrong, and has been told to you on multiple occasions.

if you'd spent that time actually going tthrough and applying the many suggestions you received in the other thread, you may well have finally solved it all.

End result is that you're ignoring good and pertinent advice, and labelling anyone who disagrees with you as an 'idiot'. Which is ALWAYS followed by a 'HOW DARE YOU'.

Theres nothing more to be added. You were given fantastic advice on how to isolate the problem and how and it's occurring, but you seem determined to ignore that. Guess it ruins the 'victim' status?

Do what's been suggested in the other threads. The problem IS on your end. It Is your responsibility to find and fix this problem.

You should NOT, under ANY circumstances, attempt to start new eBay deals until you're sure it's resolved. Otherwise it's rude - waste of valuable seller time, for a known outcome: 'This Week's StarwarsDans Drama Thread', where we hear takes of Nasty sellers complaining about you, when all you haven't done is paid. HOW DARE THEY!


And of course, these sellers should all be on the phone to eBay, taking about what, 40 min minim each, to resolve YOUR PROBLEM.

It's just going to keep happening until eBay has finally had enough of you and your other five accounts.


It's all so simple: you're the only common denominator here. There's no other explanation. It's something on your end which you refuse to addres, blaming sellers and eBay. Both like money. Both would like your money. But they can't fix it for you. It may involve delving into your personal banking habits, and the seller knows none of that.

It really is just common sense that if you're the one having the problem, you need to fix it. You DO NOT then start multiple new deals, knowing full well that at least one of these guys is going to get screwed around due to your I solved issue. That's even worse than irresponsible. You're deliberately inflicting impossible sales on these sellers, when there's not a thing they can do.

Dan: please, and without any 'HOW DARE YOU's, please post ALL your, and your mothers, eBay usernames.

we just don't want to deal with this anymore.

Can't help someone who won't help them self.

It's all been written for you, multiple times: things to try, ways to isolate components, etc. rather than ranting that it's the sellers responsibility.

http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1089899-2/#post19028291

This sums up his response perfectly. 'Sellers Beware.

And yes, a list of all you related IDs we oils be fantastic thanks. Any you use, or could use. I sure as heck don't want to get stuck in limbo due to Dan transaction. I'm fully okay with the odd little thing happening occasionally, but what you're deliberately doing to these sellers is wrong. You know it won't work. You do it anyway, then yell at them and expect them to perform your tech work.

Its outrageous. Absolutely outrageous.

I'd love to hear more from your legal side, as much of that has been completely wrong too. That's not just now, I've noticed it for months.

Put the blame the only place it lies: on you, for handling this so horrifically bad.
 
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TFB

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Just drop it. Dan seems to be having some issues and while some of his comments where not respectful...your input really does not help and telling people not to deal with Dan is rude and not respectful as well. This Thread needs to be locked.
 
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Ok, I'll bite, let's start with: what is Consumer Law?, since I'm not a lawyer:

Consumer protection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia :p:

Consumer protection
"Consumer protection" consists of laws and organizations designed to ensure the rights of consumers as well as fair trade competition and the free flow of truthful information in the marketplace. The laws are designed to prevent businesses that engage in fraud or specified unfair practices from gaining an advantage over competitors and may provide additional protection for the weak and those unable to take care of themselves. Consumer protection laws are a form of government regulation which aim to protect the rights of consumers. For example, a government may require businesses to disclose detailed information about products—particularly in areas where safety or public health is an issue, such as food. Consumer protection is linked to the idea of "consumer rights" (that consumers have various rights as consumers), and to the formation of consumer organizations, which help consumers make better choices in the marketplace and get help with consumer complaints.
Other organizations that promote consumer protection include government organizations and self-regulating business organizations such as consumer protection agencies and organizations, the Federal Trade Commission, ombudsmen, Better Business Bureaus, etc.
A consumer is defined as someone who acquires goods or services for direct use or ownership rather than for resale or use in production and manufacturing.
Consumer interests can also be protected by promoting competition in the markets which directly and indirectly serve consumers, consistent with economic efficiency, but this topic is treated in competition law.
Consumer protection can also be asserted via non-government organizations and individuals as consumer activism.

Consumer law
Consumer protection law or consumer law is considered an area of law that regulates private law relationships between individual consumers and the businesses that sell those goods and services. Consumer protection covers a wide range of topics, including but not necessarily limited to product liability, privacy rights, unfair business practices, fraud, misrepresentation, and other consumer/business interactions.
It's a way of preventing fraud and scams from occurring at any time.
Consumer protection laws deal with a wide range of issues including credit repair, debt repair, product safety, service and sales contracts, bill collector regulation, pricing, utility turnoffs, consolidation, personal loans that may lead to bankruptcy.


United States
In the United States a variety of laws at both the federal and state levels regulate consumer affairs. Among them are the federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act, the Fair Credit Reporting Act, Truth in Lending Act, Fair Credit Billing Act, and the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. Federal consumer protection laws are mainly enforced by the Federal Trade Commission and the U.S. Department of Justice.
At the state level, many states have adopted the Uniform Deceptive Trade Practices Act including, but not limited to, Delaware, Illinois, Maine, and Nebraska. The deceptive trade practices prohibited by the Uniform Act can be roughly subdivided into conduct involving either a) unfair or fraudulent business practice and b) untrue or misleading advertising. The Uniform Act contains a private remedy with attorneys fees for prevailing parties where the losing party "willfully engaged in the trade practice knowing it to be deceptive". Uniform Act §3(b). Also, the majority of states have a Department of Consumer Affairs devoted to regulating certain industries and protecting consumers who use goods and services from those industries. For example, in California, the California Department of Consumer Affairs regulates about 2.3 million professionals in over 230 different professions, through its forty regulatory entities. In addition, California encourages its consumers to act as private attorneys general through the liberal provisions of its Consumers Legal Remedies Act, Cal. Civil Code § 1750 et seq.
California has the strongest consumer protection laws of any US state, partly because of rigorous advocacy and lobbying by groups such as Utility Consumers' Action Network, Consumer Federation of California and Privacy Rights Clearinghouse.
Other states have been the leaders in specific aspects of consumer protection. For example Florida, Delaware and Minnesota have legislated requirements that contracts be written at reasonable readability levels as a large proportion of contracts cannot be understood by most consumers who sign them.

So there is no fraud or scam, only a computer glitch from the side of the buyer that's it :whistling:, I have nothing further to add to this conversation :ninja:.
 
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Just drop it. Dan seems to be having some issues and while some of his comments where not respectful...your input really does not help and telling people not to deal with Dan is rude and not respectful as well. This Thread needs to be locked.


Do you know how ridiculous a comment about being rude and not respectful sounds coming from you, Todd? :p
 
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Do you take off your tinfoil hat before attempting to pay?

It may be causing some sort of interference.
 

TFB

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Josh, It's an observation............I have never told anybody to avoid anyone's sales that was a legit seller....weather I had beef with them or not.
 
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I think it's the other way round mate. No one is saying don't buy from him. They are saying don't sell to him to save yourself the hassle. And I don't think they are even saying that. What they are saying is Dan should pull his finger out and sort it out before HE buys anything else and ends up in the same situation, blaming the seller for something they have no control over.
 

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This thread is quickly becoming a train wreck, so I think it best to close it down as was previously recommended.

Mike
 
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