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Thread: "AFA/3rd Party Professional Grading" Debate Thread

  1. #21

    Re: \"Official\" AFA Debate Thread

    too many times have i purchased figures that were described as perfect and looked great in the pictures only to find it is junk. i like that AFA is out there and that they are pretty accurate with their grading. i have gotten a few figures graded, but a good portion of my collection is afa graded (me buying them pre-graded)

    yes they make mistakes, but who do you trust more
    a guy trying to sell you something and saying it is perfect
    or
    a guy who has nothing to gain on what the grade is or how perfect it is, and he is just reporting the facts

    i trust the guy who has nothing to gain, and is just reporting what he sees


    i do have one question

    i thought i read somewhere that each piece is checked by several people. is this true, and how do they decide which grade to use...is it, one person grades it and everyone else will agree or disagree??or is it they all grade it individually??

    this i would like to know
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  2. #22

    Re: \"Official\" AFA Debate Thread

    Could I possibly ask a question regarding AFA. Is AFA and its associated companies privately owned or are there shareholders involved?
    Just one thing that has crossed my mind in the past...

    Jim

  3. #23

    Re: \"Official\" AFA Debate Thread

    i agree with you sotoam about the loose figures i'm really not into that whole side of the hobby but as a misb playset and vehicle collector my items are well protected after grading from afa.

  4. #24

    Re: \"Official\" AFA Debate Thread

    i think some of the loose graded figures look cool in the little case, but i wouldnt pay the money they want for the grading
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  5. #25

    Re: \"Official\" AFA Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lumat
    i think some of the loose graded figures look cool in the little case, but i wouldnt pay the money they want for the grading
    I think they look ok as well. I'm with you on it though, I wouldn't pay the money to get it slabbed and graded. I have picked up a few of them mainly because the price was right: when I can get an AFA 85 R2 pop-up lightsaber and an AFA 85 Imperial Dignitary for the same price as a loose figure, sure, I'll buy.
    After Monday and Tuesday, even calendars say "W T F"
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  6. #26

    Re: \"Official\" AFA Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by lumat
    i think some of the loose graded figures look cool in the little case, but i wouldnt pay the money they want for the grading
    Actually I kind of disagree, I think having the weapon fastened to a separate piece of acrylic like AFA does takes away from the displayability of the figures. Give me the weapons in the hand any day.
    Wanted: Vintage POTF Gamorrean Guard MOC

  7. #27

    Re: \"Official\" AFA Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by blimpyboy
    Cons:

    1.) They're expensive.
    2.) There's a question about the qualifications of those doing the grading/authenticating.
    3.) It makes it too convenient for sellers not to give detailed descriptions and for buyers not to ask questions, despite the fact that a grade of "80" is not universally applicable.
    4.) It drives up prices of higher-end items, both graded and ungraded, discouraging new collectors with limited budgets.
    5.) I've heard they don't actually authenticate the weapons of loose figures, though I don't know if this is actually true or not.
    6.) They don't look any nicer than Oscar's cases.
    7.) They don't always deliver on their turnaround times, despite charging significantly more for quick turnaround.
    8.) It makes it too easy for buyers not to do their homework and not to learn how to determine grading for themselves.
    9.) Are AFA graders allowed to actively participate in the hobby themselves? If so, doesn't that create a conflict of interest?
    10.) The existence of grading authorities HAS destroyed entire hobbies before. Just look at the sports card industry.

    These are the same point I've been bringing up for weeks now, most of which have gone completely unanswered.
    Most, if not all, of these concerns have been addressed thoroughly by Tom Derby (CollectInvest) in this very forum section. Some of them are even addressed by the AFA website.

    My suggestion would be to use the search feature and reference the AFA website.

    Leif
    SW Collecting Since 1977
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  8. #28

    Re: \"Official\" AFA Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Leif_G
    Quote Originally Posted by blimpyboy
    Cons:

    1.) They're expensive.
    2.) There's a question about the qualifications of those doing the grading/authenticating.
    3.) It makes it too convenient for sellers not to give detailed descriptions and for buyers not to ask questions, despite the fact that a grade of "80" is not universally applicable.
    4.) It drives up prices of higher-end items, both graded and ungraded, discouraging new collectors with limited budgets.
    5.) I've heard they don't actually authenticate the weapons of loose figures, though I don't know if this is actually true or not.
    6.) They don't look any nicer than Oscar's cases.
    7.) They don't always deliver on their turnaround times, despite charging significantly more for quick turnaround.
    8.) It makes it too easy for buyers not to do their homework and not to learn how to determine grading for themselves.
    9.) Are AFA graders allowed to actively participate in the hobby themselves? If so, doesn't that create a conflict of interest?
    10.) The existence of grading authorities HAS destroyed entire hobbies before. Just look at the sports card industry.

    These are the same point I've been bringing up for weeks now, most of which have gone completely unanswered.
    Most, if not all, of these concerns have been addressed thoroughly by Tom Derby (CollectInvest) in this very forum section. Some of them are even addressed by the AFA website.

    My suggestion would be to use the search feature and reference the AFA website.

    Leif
    Most, if not all, are a matter of opinion and cannot simply be "cleared up" by someone in the know. But I'll be sure to heed your advice and reference the AFA website to see what they have to say about my qualm that they are expensive.
    Wanted: Vintage POTF Gamorrean Guard MOC

  9. #29

    Re: \"Official\" AFA Debate Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by blimpyboy

    Most, if not all, are a matter of opinion and cannot simply be "cleared up" by someone in the know.
    True, some of your statements are perspective oriented and based strictly on your opinion. Personally, I have always felt that the more a person knows about something, the greater the worth of their opinion. In that sense, a little information from 'someone in the know' can go a long way toward forming or changing the opinion of a reasonable person. If you feel your opinion based position is so entrenched that it cannot simply be 'cleared up' with some additional knowledge, that's an unfortunate state. Hopefully that's not really the case.




    Quote Originally Posted by blimpyboy
    1.) They're expensive.
    First of all, someone reading this wouldn't know whether you meant the grading service is expensive or the AFA graded items are expensive. In any case I would say that whether an item should be considered 'expensive' or not depends on several factors including the pricing of competitors, services received for the cost (value), and the consumer's standard of living.



    Here's an example of a question that's been asked, and answered by Tom, on several occasions.

    Quote Originally Posted by blimpyboy

    2.) There's a question about the qualifications of those doing the grading/authenticating.
    A couple of threads that touch on the subject that you may have missed... search yourself for others.

    The Grading Operations
    Some excellent comments by Tom describing graders and process



    This next statement isn't really even an AFA specific issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by blimpyboy
    3.) It makes it too convenient for sellers not to give detailed descriptions and for buyers not to ask questions, despite the fact that a grade of "80" is not universally applicable.
    This would apply equally to any grading system including the old 'C' grading. There are as many eBay auctions that list C-7 or C-8 without going into details about flaws. Also a 'C' rating could be every bit as ambiguous. Does a 'C-8' mean the bubble is dented? Or does it mean a paper tear on the card? It can mean either, and is far more prone to not being an objective rating (not being assigned by a third party).

    So my point here is simply this... Why suggest this is specifically an AFA issue when in fact it's not? Somewhere in cyberspace is there a 'C' grading thread where I can go and see you leveling the same critisism in crusade-like fashion against the flawed 'C' grading system? This just seems more like a quick easy stone to cast.



    Here's one statement that makes no sense to me:

    Quote Originally Posted by blimpyboy
    6.) They don't look any nicer than Oscar's cases.
    So? Why is that a con? Do they have to look nicer than Oscars? The AFA is a grading service that charges people for grading, not for casing items. Oscar has nice cases, but does he provide grading services? No. Your comparing apples and oranges and implying that the AFA isn't providing better value for what they charge. Sure, maybe that's easy to do when you ignore the service they provide.

    Truthfully, I think your list of 'cons' would be quite short if it were based more on knowledge and less on opinion.

    Don't take that as personal critisism. I just think you could benefit from some more knowledge on the subject, a more objective view of AFA services, and perhaps a better understanding of the role of 'value' in the marketplace.



    This one here...

    Quote Originally Posted by blimpyboy
    8.) It makes it too easy for buyers not to do their homework and not to learn how to determine grading for themselves.
    ...I would probably agree with to some degree, but reworded. I think I would word it like this:

    "The AFA grading system is complex and thus some people tend to simply rely on the overall grade given, instead of appreciating the need to understand the condition that grade represents." ... or words to that effect.

    Leif
    SW Collecting Since 1977
    Leif's Trade Feedback

    Supersnipe Comic Art Gallery (and related SW art) (George Lucas' & Ed Summers' comic/art shop in the 1970's)
    Star Wars Dyeline & Cactus Print Thread

  10. #30

    Re: \"Official\" AFA Debate Thread

    ah I like the way you use great linguistic skills to make your point instead of just drop some angry lines.. great!!

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