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Thread: Questions about AFA and PSA issues

  1. #1

    Questions about AFA and PSA issues

    Hello everyone please take some time to read. I don't post much but have been an active collector for the past 25 plus years. I Know some folks don't care for AFA and I'm that category as well but I'm curious to what the thoughts are on am issue happening in the baseball card world, which I am active in as well

    Recently PSA, which is the equivalent to AFA has been investigated by the FBI for a serious issue with card grading. Such as cards being trimmed and favorable grades for big time sellers who submit X amount of cards to them.

    I personally have experienced this situation with AFA as I sent a 21 back boba Fett in to be graded with a dinged bubble. It was sent with some folks I knew. I received the Fett back and was surprised it received a much higher grade than I expected. When I told the guys who I bought this from and who mailed it for me they had said they had a friend there who takes care of them. I left it at that

    At any rate does anyone have any concern that afa pieces will start going down the route of PSA. PSA is having
    major issues now and if it closes it's doors it will have a tremendous impact on the card market. Personally I have no doubt that if anyone had a friend or family member at afa that they would give them a higher grade. And for what stuff is selling for now I really don't trust it very much
    Last edited by roulettemonster; 09-15-2019 at 09:55 PM.
    Jon

  2. #2
    The whole concept of grading is patently ludicrous and deserves to collapse like the house of cards it is. "My mass produced plastic toy is slightly more pristine than your mass produced plastic toy". Why does it even matter? It's right up there with "My Dad could beat up your Dad".

    Ruling on authenticity - that's the only value these services provide (and even then they get it wrong on occasion). Everything else is subjective assessment and ultimately means nothing. From the distance of a meter away, can anyone genuinely tell the difference between an AFA 90 and a 95, or would you simply agree that they both look pretty awesome as display pieces?

    When figures slide around in bubbles and get paint rubs after grading, when bubbles turn yellow after grading, when a figure shifts around and cracks a bubble after grading, is it still and AFA 95? Well of course it is, the label says so!

    Grading services are as bad as tobacco sellers. They both prey upon their chosen market, knowing how to exploit the addictions and psychological weaknesses simply to take your money from your pocket. Previously, collectors would simply look at something with their own two eyes and decide whether they liked how it looked.
    "I'm sorry, but I'm not going to watch the Clone Wars TV series until I've seen the Clone Wars movie. I prefer to let George Lucas disappoint me in the order he intended.

  3. #3
    I believe IMHO, it’s not really the authentication of the piece that sours everyone.

    that part is good and again, IMHO, it’s the grade itself that burns people .

    I think they serve the purpose with authenticity however they have been known to cause issues with the grade itself.

    maybe they should eliminate the numbers and stay at authenticity and non paint touch ups.

    Then maybe all this will go away
    F.S.C.M.E. Vintage Toy Collector. TOYMANS FEEDBACK http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1113796/

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Dax View Post
    When figures slide around in bubbles and get paint rubs after grading, when bubbles turn yellow after grading, when a figure shifts around and cracks a bubble after grading, is it still and AFA 95?
    This is my big problem with these services. The physical materials they are grading can/will look worse over time.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by roulettemonster View Post
    Recently PSA, which is the equivalent to AFA has been investigated by the FBI for a serious issue with card grading. Such as cards being trimmed and favorable grades for big time sellers who submit X amount of cards to them.
    Got a link for this story?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Nibcrom View Post
    Got a link for this story?
    I'm sorry I don't know how to post a link. I'm computer illiterate. If you can do Google and look up PSA and FBI its very easy to find. I'll try and figure out how to put a link up here. Figured that out quickly lol. Take a look it below this message
    Last edited by roulettemonster; 09-16-2019 at 01:33 PM.
    Jon

  7. #7

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Dax View Post
    The whole concept of grading is patently ludicrous and deserves to collapse like the house of cards it is. "My mass produced plastic toy is slightly more pristine than your mass produced plastic toy". Why does it even matter? It's right up there with "My Dad could beat up your Dad".

    Ruling on authenticity - that's the only value these services provide (and even then they get it wrong on occasion). Everything else is subjective assessment and ultimately means nothing. From the distance of a meter away, can anyone genuinely tell the difference between an AFA 90 and a 95, or would you simply agree that they both look pretty awesome as display pieces?

    When figures slide around in bubbles and get paint rubs after grading, when bubbles turn yellow after grading, when a figure shifts around and cracks a bubble after grading, is it still and AFA 95? Well of course it is, the label says so!

    Grading services are as bad as tobacco sellers. They both prey upon their chosen market, knowing how to exploit the addictions and psychological weaknesses simply to take your money from your pocket. Previously, collectors would simply look at something with their own two eyes and decide whether they liked how it looked.
    Then what’s the alternative? If you’ve bought anything in your life you care about determining quality as well as authenticity. There needs to be some semblance of a standard to separate a 70 from an 80 and thus determine its value. This hobby has grown to such an extent you’d be foolish not to have a high value piece graded unless you wanted it in your private collection and passed on as an heirloom.

    The process is similar to auction houses. It’s a risk with an understanding that, as with the second law of thermodynamics, everything will deteriorate. At the time of being graded that was the condition of the item and if anyone is buying a high value item they should seek out the provenance for themselves. The first part of your post has valid points. The latter was dreamed up by some conspiracy nut job. Good luck grading your tin foil hat.
    The Spirit of Vengeance that detects and eradicates the menace of toxic fandom

    I am because there are those that employ unmitigated vitriol towards the PT/ST to mask their racism, sexism and predatory nature. There has been an awakening. Have you felt it?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Waggy View Post
    Then what’s the alternative? If you’ve bought anything in your life you care about determining quality as well as authenticity. There needs to be some semblance of a standard to separate a 70 from an 80 and thus determine its value. This hobby has grown to such an extent you’d be foolish not to have a high value piece graded unless you wanted it in your private collection and passed on as an heirloom.

    The process is similar to auction houses. It’s a risk with an understanding that, as with the second law of thermodynamics, everything will deteriorate. At the time of being graded that was the condition of the item and if anyone is buying a high value item they should seek out the provenance for themselves. The first part of your post has valid points. The latter was dreamed up by some conspiracy nut job. Good luck grading your tin foil hat.

    Like I mentioned above. You can just eliminate the grade and keep the authenticity part. Our eyes can judge the condition and price we are willing to pay. I have seen 85 grades that look no different than an 80 or 75. I believe, that's what all the fuss is about.

    When push comes to shove, there are really only a handful of figures outside of the first 12 and a few of the last 17 that condone grading when it comes to loose figures. You Can actually buy already graded figs for less than you can have them graded for. Cardback are a completely different animal all together, however, these can still be authenticated without a number grade.

    I have strong beliefs in having an expensive item authenticated with documentation . I really don't care about the number grade, but I know others don't feel this way.
    F.S.C.M.E. Vintage Toy Collector. TOYMANS FEEDBACK http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1113796/

  10. #10
    I don't see the need to grade common loose figures but can see why some collectors like them in their collection.

    I think AFA is important for expensive items ( especially moc ) the modern way of collecting buying from the internet you are relying on the seller being honest and supply high quality photos. Often it puts the buyers mind at ease if an item is sealed in acrylic and graded. Back when I started collecting you could see and hold the item before buying it .. those days are gone.

    To answer the ops original question. Yes, if AFA have been dodgy it will make things very messy for collectors.

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