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Thread: What films/shows/books do you break from typical conventional wisdom and love or hate?

  1. #1

    What films/shows/books do you break from typical conventional wisdom and love or hate?

    You know how most people feel the same way about the quality, or lack thereof, in pop culture media? Or you feel like everyone is "wrong" about something ou like or dislike? Is there anything that you swing far from the norm with either loving or hating?

    A few come to mind for me: everyone seems to love The Last Crusade and dislike Temple of Doom, and I'm just opposite! I am not a fan of the 3rd Indy film and just love the 2nd. What comes to mind for you guys?
    Please read my version of the Star Wars prequels and let me know what you think!

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  2. #2
    Well, I guess I'm one of the few Star Wars fans who doesn't consider Empire Strikes Back to be superior to the original Star Wars. That's not to say that ESB isn't great; but Star Wars is still a better movie. Mainly because it can stand alone. Even if there had never been any sequels or prequels, Star Wars would still be one of the greatest films ever made. ESB is a good movie, but not as a standalone film because it has no beginning or ending. It didn't need to set up any characters, because everyone already knew them from the previous movie, and it didn't need to resolve anything, because it was designed to have a sequel. It's easy to be great when you don't need to set up or resolve anything. It's much harder to be great when you need to set up an entire universe AND bring the story to a satisfying conclusion within 2 hours. Star Wars managed to do that.
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split. - Robert E. Howard

  3. #3
    I also think the original Star Wars (A New Hope) is the best Star Wars film.

    I love the PT. The Phantom Menace is my 3rd favourite Star Wars film.

    I like Crystal Skull better than Temple of Doom.

    SuckerPunch is a great movie.

    I loved the last season of GOT.

    I think the Beatles are the most overrated band of all time. They are the original boy band.

    I hate Drake.

  4. #4
    Stones > Beatles.

    I can't stand Metallica.

    I'm an ardent PT-Apologist.

    'Raiders' is the only Indiana Jones worth watching, more than once.

    I have no problem with GoT. nor Captain Marvel.

    (who the **** is Drake?)

    Kanye is a misunderstood genius.

    I could spend all day watching the Maury show.

    and I have a soft spot for Coronation Street. (don't judge).
    Last edited by Cobalt60; 07-12-2019 at 10:02 PM.
    "Is there anyone on this ship, who even remotely, looks like Satan?" -- James Kirk, U.S.S. Enterprise.

  5. #5
    I have a few and it's sort of funny because my go-to when this comes up is EXACTLY in the first post. Temple of Doom is my favorite Indiana Jones film. I won't say it's the technical best Indiana Jones, but I don't think best and favorite are the same thing. I just find it to be so original. It wasn't afraid to go against the grain. From the get-go it starts off with a guts move. It's a prequel! But in the franchise it def. stands out as the most unique. It seems time has been kinder to it. It doesn't seem remotely as hated as it once was. It seems like Crystal Skull was viewed as so poor...it elevated Doom for a lot of people. I do, however, love Last Crusade too...but I can't deny it's the essence of a "safe" movie.

    Perhaps the most controversial reaction I ever got in real life was my reaction to the original Sam Raimi Spider-Man film. I was a junior in High School at the time and everyone wanted my opinion on the film. I was the comic book guy everyone came to with questions, Spider-Man famously my favorite. I...HATED...it! I was quite literally the only person in my entire school who hated it and as a result people started to legit even trash me! It was kind of funny, "Hey, did you hear he hated Spider-Man?" spread like wildfire. People were shouting things at me in the halls and everything.

    I actually enjoy all the Jurassic Park films. I think The Lost World is (mostly) brilliant, albeit with flawed scenes/moments. The gymnastic routine moment comes to mind. Ugh! Jurassic Park /// is utterly brain-dead stupid, I can recognize that, it's literally nothing but "Run, run, run!" Long gone is the portrayal of dinosaurs as animals, it's a straight-up B-Monster Movie. With that said, call it a guilty pleasure. I had fun! Jurassic World is just a soft reboot remake of the original, but again...if there's dinosaurs, I'll more than likely have fun. Even if it's mindless fun. Same goes for Fallen Kingdom.

    I don't get why Casino Royale was considered the bees knees. I thought it was highly overrated, but not even that. I actually didn't even like it. I found it structured oddly, to say the least. The torture scene loses all suspense and becomes comical and ultimately I found the entire thing sadly anticlimactic. There was a moment when I felt the film should have ended only for it to go on about a half hour longer. Felt tacked on! While I do like Craig a lot as 007, it just didn't do it for me. Maybe even more shocking...I can't say I've ever seen anyone say this...is I like Quantum of Solace better! Yeah, yeah, I know. Now where I do fit into the social norm is in absolutely adoring Skyfall.

    I think Black Panther is a highly overrated film. While I do like it, the praise it got was complete spin. No it's not astoundingly new. Nothing about it is! No Killmonger is not the best MCU villain. He's very far from. He's just "evil" Black Panther. People have complained for years about how so many of the Marvel villains are just antagonistic doppelganger versions of the protagonist, which is exactly what Killmonger is, but they praise him for it? So while, yes, I enjoyed it...I hate when people try to act like it's a groundbreaking film. The fact it was nominated for BEST PICTURE is a joke when infinitely superior and far more original superhero films were ignored. It really highlights the priorities of the Academy, how it's often not about the actual film-making. It's about politics and hip topical trends.

    I think Venom is the most overplayed and overrated character Marvel has. Bring on the hate! =P

    I still have not seen The Godfather...and don't have any interest to.

    Donatello is my favorite Ninja Turtle.

    I think The Dark Knight Returns is the most overrated Graphic Novel of all-time. Not that I dislike it, but best ever? Please! It doesn't even make my top 10 Batman books let alone top 20 graphic novels in general.

    I love Super Mario Brothers II and never understood the hatred it gets. Sure it's different, I like that it's different. Sure it wasn't originally a Mario game, so what? It was a good game regardless, now with Mario.

    This might not be that uncommon, it's basically a 50/50 if you asked strangers on the street, but considering this is a board dedicated to a sci-fi fantasy franchise...this might be controversial. I appreciate what it did for science-fiction, I understand it was a landmark franchise, I recognize how iconic it is...but I hate Star Trek. I just find it so, well, boring and bland. It's so technical. Not that I can't appreciate more cerebral stories, I absolutely can, but Trek just never captured my interest.

    I think The Phantom Menace is the best prequel film. I know, I know, hear me out. Do I think it's a bad movie? Absolutely! But I find it far more enjoyable than II and III. Clones doesn't have much at all I enjoy, the romance is wooden, Boba Fett never needed an explored backstory, and I honestly never cared much for most the new designs. Sith is the crux of why this trilogy was even made; Anakin's fall to the dark-side. If that didn't work, the entire film would collapse. Well, for me, it didn't work. It was utterly botched, rushed, and frankly, made Anakin out to be a naive idiot who is easily manipulated. The Phantom Menace, for me, at least had a lot of good design work and fun (albeit mindless and superficial) scenes.

    I absolutely hate Friends. It always struck me as such low-brow, safe, genetic, cookie-cutter soap-opera comedy. I will never understand its popularity status. I also hate Big Bang Theory!

    I think Daredevil on Netflix is better than any MCU film. Not that I'm saying the MCU is remotely bad, but that DD is simply that good.

    I utterly loathe Twitter right down to the very concept of it. I don't like being forced to a limited amount of characters.

    Conceptually I think Stephen Kings The Shining has brilliant ideas in place, but...isn't very good. I much prefer the film...which means King would utterly hate me. =P

    Outside of literally one song, I hate Johnny Cash.

    I cannot stand live-action musicals. There's only one I enjoy, that being Labyrinth, and only because the puppetry and set design is so brilliant I can forgive the song numbers. Plus it's David Bowie! Otherwise, I'd rather put a nail gun to my forehead than sit through one.

    I DON'T think Heath Ledger is the definitive Joker. I enjoyed him, but I'm far from thinking it was the second coming of Christ.
    Last edited by MysterioMaximus; 07-13-2019 at 03:34 AM.
    'But I don’t want to go among mad people,’ Alice remarked. ‘Oh, you can’t help that,’ said the Cat: ‘We’re all mad here. I’m mad, you’re mad.’ ‘How do you know I’m mad?’ said Alice. ‘You must be,’ said the Cat, ‘or you wouldn’t have come here.’ - Lewis Carroll 'Alice's Adventures in Wonderland'

  6. #6
    Despite the good outweighing the bad, the lord of the rings movies get worse with each installment. I hate the way..well both ways they kill Sauramon...who in the books lives. And the army of the dead portrayed as scrubbing bubbles or a virus. And all of those movies are better than the Hobbit movies that follow...which are full of complete and utter bullcrap. Temple of doom is my favorite Indy movie...and agreed that Star Wars is the best movie in the original Trilogy. Oh and adding Boba Fett to anything does not make it instantly better.
    Last edited by Lobotscomb; 07-12-2019 at 11:54 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobotscomb View Post
    Despite the good outweighing the bad, the lord of the rings movies get worse with each installment. I hate the way..well both ways they kill Sauramon...who in the books lives. And the army of the dead portrayed as scrubbing bubbles or a virus.
    I love the LOTR trilogy, even adore, but something odd happened to me. I think maybe even society was blinded to just the sheer excitement of those epic books finally being brought to life, because when I watch them now? I notice a lot more flaws than I originally did. Fellowship I still find near perfection...but that radioactive Galadriel scene?! What was THAT!? The Two Towers has this moment that is jarring to me. It's during the Dead Marshes, the part where Frodo falls into the water and sees the undead. They look like cheap masks bought at a Halloween pop-up store in October. I even noticed that the first time. WETA did some incredible effects, that's not one of them. I think the new interns worked on those. Hah! But by far, I'm with you entirely, the Army of the Dead were so misused. Their entire purpose is literally to do nothing but end the battle. Dues Ex Machina style! Jackson and co. wrote themselves to a stand still. How do we end the battle? That was their solution. Then there's the increasing absurdity of the Legolas tricks. He's aiming for a dark and moody (almost) period piece, almost treating it as if it was real history...but lost history. Then he throws in a complete Hollywood glamour moment like Legolas taking down the Oliphant and it completely takes you out of the seriousness. That is a trend that continued into The Hobbit films even, when now the Oliphant scene even seems subtle. What is he, the terminator mixed with Spider-Man? That's also in juxtaposition to Gimli, who increasingly is used as comedic relief as the series progresses. The truth is they are both infinitely better characters in Fellowship, far more grounded and serious. I think largely a lot of my issues stem from, well, I just don't think Peter Jackson is a very good director. I think he just struck gold here, but even some of his camera movements feel bizarre to me. Dutch angles and such. I think Rings is largely a masterpiece not for him but for the phenomenal cast, other writers, WETA, Howard Shore, concept designers (some of the best designs ever...I do not envy the people who had to make a tangible translation of Ents and somehow make it work...but by God they did it), and most especially Tolkien's story. Jackson hasn't made a good film since IMO.

    I actually enjoyed a decent chunk of the first Hobbit film, but I totally noticed huge flaws. Riddles in the Dark was done phenomenally! The Goblin King scenes are, for me, borderline unwatchable though. Utterly full of cringe! Jackson clearly didn't want to be the one to make these and it shows. There's a REALLY interesting sort of behind the scenes tell-all documentary style youtube video a fan made that reveals some staggering making-of troubles and conflicts the series faced. She talked to cast members and all! The second one dialed up the cringe times ten. It has moments that are so utterly awful, like the theme-park water ride that the barrel ride turned into or the utterly pointless Smaug battle that serves no narrative purpose other than to just fill time. I do, however, think it has its moments...albeit minimally. Then you come to the third and honestly, outside of literally just the opening with Smaug attacking Laketown, I don't think I can draw any good out of it. It's that bad! What's even crazier? The Extended Editions aren't better like the LOTR extended, they're actually (shockingly) even worse. There are just so many questionable decisions in the franchise. The Hobbit is not Lord of the Rings, tonally they're entirely different. The Hobbit is more a fairy tale as opposed to a vast sweeping mythological epic. Jackson seemed so bipolar, one second he wants the whimsy and lightheartedness of the book and the next he wants a dark and serious Rings atmosphere. They clash! But even the whimsy went too far, it delves into cartoonish. Stick with one or the other! Then he seems so desperate to connect this to Rings in unnecessary ways. For example; The White Council, Radaghast, Sauron, Legolas, mentioning Strider and Gimli. Now truthfully, it's not 100% inaccurate in ways. Yes the White Council was dealing with the Necromancer who is Sauron. Yes Gandalf investigated Dol Guldor and was captured during the events of The Hobbit. That's true to the appendix. Just directly including it really roughed up the structure of the main story, but Jackson seemed so obsessed with "Remember THIS!?" Bilbo doesn't even seem like a major player by two and three. I wasn't even opposed to Legolas being in Mirkwood. The truth is, his character was created after The Hobbit was published. So retroactively, he probably would have been there had he existed as a character then. That makes sense to me. My issue is force-feeding him into the actual plot itself! Why does he have to be a character?! Cameo is fine, giant climactic and over the top battles...not so much. I was half expecting Jackson to give Smaugs death to Legolas. Seriously! Then there's the diversity angle. Now granted, not a single character is female in the book. I can fly with making a Mirkwood guard female, what is utterly tacked on is the totally inorganic Dawrf/Elf love story. You can so tell some suit at a board meeting said "There has to be romance, right? You can't have a movie without romance!" Actually, Lily is a huge Tolkien geek in real life and took the role only because she was promised they would NOT insert her character for romance. She felt duped and expressed it! I also get why they would make Bard more of a character...makes sense. It's just how it was done that I disliked. I mean there's just so much that's utterly awful in these films.

    It's long but here's that video. It's in 3 parts, but if you really want a critical analysis and a peak inside the making of The Hobbit trilogy...the true making of and not the fluff stuff you see on the Blu-Ray official releases...it's a pretty interesting watch. It's also waaaaay worse than I knew. The production was a MESS! It even came down to a huge political snafu in New Zealand:

    Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTRUQ-RKfUs

    Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElPJr_tKkO4

    Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi7t_g5QObs
    Last edited by MysterioMaximus; 07-13-2019 at 08:09 AM.
    'But I don’t want to go among mad people,’ Alice remarked. ‘Oh, you can’t help that,’ said the Cat: ‘We’re all mad here. I’m mad, you’re mad.’ ‘How do you know I’m mad?’ said Alice. ‘You must be,’ said the Cat, ‘or you wouldn’t have come here.’ - Lewis Carroll 'Alice's Adventures in Wonderland'

  8. #8
    When I was a kid i was an advanced reader and was bored by books like "the mouse and the motorcycle" by third grade. Through the RIF program's reps (is that program still even around?) who actually asked what I liked to read, allowed me to pick from the 6th grader table. In fact they walked me over and handed me "The Hobbit". That book was read and re-read, which was a foreign concept to me at the time! In all honesty the movie should have been one and done. I sat there through the first two films cringing. They made the Dwarves completely unacceptable! In fact My wife an I call the movies "The unacceptable Dwarves" trilogy. We completely passed on the 3rd film until we saw it on tv.They make caricatures out of fantastic literary characters that paved the way for the modern fantasy era. Legolas was purely a cash in. In all of the movies his deeds are supposed to come across as brash and mighty. Instead, they are cartoony and bring the film down. Whenever we see him slide sown the oliphant leg we always yell "Yabba dabba doo" its a scene literally lifted from the Flintstones. And after struggling theough the hobbit, his "Super Mario bros" bridge scene further cements the ridiculous movie version of the character. I felt so betrayed by Jackson and company for allowing the original source material to be bastardized for a nifty product launch. The merch sold like a buckets of feces, and it was not the cash cow they anticipated. It stems directly from the poorly planned and made films.
    I agree with many of your LOTR gripes, and one thing stands out that every film maker should take note of... USE REAL FILM! LOTR was a monumental undertaking worthy of the acclaim when it came to just getting it on the screen. But it was doomed by this one flaw. When these films were made, nobody saw HD coming as a major concern. If you watch a vhs copy of Felloship or Towers, the effects meld well. Even the DVD versions hold up ok. But when you get to Blu Ray, things come undone. You can see the quality of the meshed effects fall apart. Anything CGI stands out in a way that was not meant to. Closer looks at some of the makeup and props do make them look cheap. A perfect example is the sweeping shot of Sauroman creating the uruk-hai at the tower. God forbid if you put the tv on 120hz with motion effects. Best Buy was showing this film in this format to sell tvs. Thats when i first noticed it. When these films are released in 4k or 8k they will need to be completely reworked. Digital filmography will only look good upscaled so much. Obviously these films were never meant to be viewed under such unforgiving circumstances.
    Last edited by Lobotscomb; 07-13-2019 at 08:00 AM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by BoneFett View Post
    I think the Beatles are the most overrated band of all time. They are the original boy band.
    Agreed. I've listened to their music and I wouldn't consider anything they've done as great. Heck, I still listen to The Monkees to this day. I haven't voluntarily listened to a Beatles song in nearly two decades.

    A couple more, now that I've had time to think about the question:

    Batman is the most overrated superhero ever created. Especially, when he's written as a super-genius, martial arts expert, who has a contingency plan for EVERY possible scenario, no matter how remote or implausible. This is why I consider the Adam West Batman to be my favorite version of the character. Because the 60s TV series took the ludicrousness of the character and played it up for comedy.

    I love CGI as an art form and we haven't even scratched the surface of its possible applications. Most of what you see in the movies is not optimal because it's been farmed out to the lowest bidder and/or rushed by crushing deadlines. The full potential of CGI has not been realized and people will watch movies with thousands of computer-generated shots and not even realize that they are seeing a special effect. Then they will see one or two shots that aren't quite optimal and use that to claim that all CGI sucks.
    Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split. - Robert E. Howard

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Cobalt60 View Post

    (who the **** is Drake?)

    Kanye is a misunderstood genius..
    LOL you silly Canadian. You know very well who Drake is. He’s the superrich kid whose mom owns a huge chunk of one of Toronto’s most affluent street, and his dad is well-connected to the biz, where little Drake spends his summer vacation with Quincy Jones when he’s not part of the Canadian kids institution DeGrassi High show. Then he decided to become a “rapper”.

    Kanye really is a musical genius. What he has contributed to hip hop is profound and revolutionary: He can’t be praised enough for this. Obnoxious personality and marrying his alter ego aside, he brought hip hop to the place it is now.

    (And I’ve never cared for nor watched any of the Indiana Jones /Back To The Future/ Ghostbusters movies.)
    Last edited by farmer; 07-13-2019 at 02:39 PM.

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