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Thread: Villains are under attack!

  1. #11
    I just...it doesn't make sense to me. I understand that (once again) these are drastic minority fringe extremists, but they always seem to have the loudest voices and make things so hyper-personal. I agree with the sentiments above. This contemporary misuse of the term creates a real problem. It's wielded with such utter casualty that the word is losing its significance, it's meaning is being lessened due to excessive inept usage. Something interesting in etymology is the idea that a large societal shift in the misunderstanding of a words definition eventually, over a period of time depending upon the exposure, means the incorrect definition of said term TRANSFORMS INTO the correct usage of the term. Broken down, its the concept that words meanings can evolve over time due to...well...so many people being so utterly ignorant of the true meaning and thus wielding it incorrectly. A case in point; I won't use the term as it's been deemed inappropriate by contemporary standards, so I'll just hint at. It's the derogatory slang term for a mentally handicapped person. The word did not, originally, refer to any specific group of people. In fact, it didn't refer to a group of people whatsoever, but now that's all it's associated with due to inappropriate and perverse use. There's another example; pervert! People believe it only refers to ****** acts. Not accurate! What is particularly concerning about this specific Star Wars attack is that this is not just any old word...this is a factual and historical term for a militant regime with fascist ideologies that attempted global dominance through genocidal methods. I don't particularly see how this can be rationally applied to Star Wars fans for simply enjoying antagonistic characters. Truth is...it can't be. It's irrational. And someone else had mentioned a very apt point; the ultimate irony of this whole thing is that the only disturbing ideology I see being employed here are from those so loosely throwing the term out. Hm! Insisting that people cannot believe, practice, or enjoy harmless things you disagree with...and thus even attempting to shame and censor them and their enjoyment of...well if that's not Nazi-like, I don't know what is. These are people that would be literally burning books that they claim are toxic because of their own personal sensitivities...all while calling others the Nazi.

    At the end of the day, the creator of the video is totally accurate. People enjoy the villains of Star Wars because, well, largely it's a superficial and rather simplistic reason. They're fun! They're toyetic! They're interesting characters! Typically, in my experience, antagonists always have far more fascinating and intricate motives and backstories than white-bread every-man protagonists. It's much like the decades old attacks on video game violence, to which I always argued that (example) controversial games like Grand Theft Auto or Mortal Kombat were a positive way of letting out natural aggression via a harmless method and venue. The fact that people think it's a promotion of real-world violence is rather insulting to the intellect of children and gaming alike. Most people know this is fiction. Most have a clear-cut definition of what is fantasy and what is reality. It's the same with villains. Villains can be a sort of power fantasy, they can get away with things on screen that you'd never dream of TRULY doing...but lord knows, at times, have perhaps popped into your morbid sensibilities in the heat of something like an argument. It doesn't translate to their fans literally being villains or committing villainous acts. That's asinine at best.
    Last edited by MysterioMaximus; 06-24-2019 at 02:42 PM.
    'But I don’t want to go among mad people,’ Alice remarked. ‘Oh, you can’t help that,’ said the Cat: ‘We’re all mad here. I’m mad, you’re mad.’ ‘How do you know I’m mad?’ said Alice. ‘You must be,’ said the Cat, ‘or you wouldn’t have come here.’ - Lewis Carroll 'Alice's Adventures in Wonderland'

  2. #12
    Eh… Just the usual useless SJW white noise. Worth an eyeroll at best.

    To play devil’s advocate, it’s not uncommon for hardcore SW nerds to be racist/sexist/homophobic/bigoted. Some of these most extreme individuals are of the nerd variety. And when you factor in the creepy fanaticism some have towards SW like it’s a religion, then there are bound to be loons from both sides of the argument. I mean, we’ve all seen/experienced it just within this forum. I’ve never taken insults personally, but we’ve all seen how it all goes down when some do take it personally… And it’s deliciously hilarious.

    The trick is to not let either side swallow and consume you with their bickering. Developing a healthy sense of self-awareness, and reminding yourself that these are just movies is a good start. More than the bickering of the films, it’s always creepy/amusing/hilarious/fascinating/entertaining to read posts on the toys front where they drag each other on their collecting habits. I mean, if toys and others’ buying habits infuriate one to such stressful extends, maybe it’s no longer… fun…?????? Same with the back-and-forth when it comes to the films. Who cares if the SJWs are accusing some of being racists cuz they dig The Empire of a space opera??? The real world roll their eyes at the mere mention of “Star Wars”, so the battle of the nerds is even more of a joke to the rest of the world. Lighten up. And learn to laugh at yourself— and with one another for being such nerds.
    Last edited by farmer; 06-26-2019 at 12:25 PM.

  3. #13
    I think some of the reasons why we're so uptight about this are:

    - it's already a niche fandom. We're already thought of as weird, don't need to be associated with nazis as well. As others have mentioned, the awesome 501st does charity while dressed as villains. They don't deserve this association with history's biggest evil.
    - SW has been at the receiving end of more than enough new-age SJW complaining. Ever since the mainsteam media (and thus the common populace) rediscovered it. "Let's use this old-but-somehow-popular thing Star Wars to push our ideas/world views onto unsuspecting people who just want to see a fun movie! That should totally get them to see things our way. Otherwise call them bigots/fascists/anything-cists.
    - We care what some SJWs are yelling because stupid stuff like that tends to gather attention and divert public opinion over a while. There has been so much lying and bullying on social media the last decade. If anything's been proven, it's that you can spin lies often enough and after a while stupid people will believe them and outnumber the smarter ones.
    - The fact that SW is 'just some films' makes it even more malicious. It's innocent media meant for enjoyment being abused to push agendas. Real-world politics have no place in this fiction, for many the escape from the real world is a big part of SW's appeal.
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  4. #14
    Well I mean...I guess my point in this post is that, even to those who seem to agree with the traditional SJW cliche types, you don't. Because they'll turn on you eventually too. SW needs to stop being politicized. Frankly, nerd culture in general. I see it everywhere, largely because...frankly...I'm not as into SW as I once was merely due to this. So I've become more a fan of other things, but I also see lunatic fringe bleeding into that too. It's trendy! It began as basically just an attack on those who dislike TLJ. Now it's transition to just an attack on those who seem to like SW in GENERAL. Because frankly, who doesn't like Darth Vader? For them it's never been about the welfare of SW. It's not their priority, they don't care. It's about using a venue, a popular one like a giant franchise film series, to spread their political ideologies.
    Last edited by MysterioMaximus; 06-26-2019 at 06:34 PM.
    'But I don’t want to go among mad people,’ Alice remarked. ‘Oh, you can’t help that,’ said the Cat: ‘We’re all mad here. I’m mad, you’re mad.’ ‘How do you know I’m mad?’ said Alice. ‘You must be,’ said the Cat, ‘or you wouldn’t have come here.’ - Lewis Carroll 'Alice's Adventures in Wonderland'

  5. #15
    ^^^ I appreciate your point. But SW is hardly a niche-fandom. You can’t control that there are bound to be some loons in a fandom of millions.

    As far as politicizing SW… SW was always political: Leia not portrayed as the scantily-clad Vegas showgirl-in-distress (until she was portrayed as slavegirl-in-distress LOL But that seemed more as a cheeky/campy take on all the Heavy Metal babes of that year’s trend than actually a political statement…), and more as a Gloria Steinem girl-next-door archetype was quietly revolutionary for the genre. Then next up was Amidala and her squad of empowered girls (bless his heart, but George’s execution missed by a mile, or ten. But his intentions were admirable). SW was consistently political. Just that with nuSW, and it started before Rian supposedly ruined SW, JJ and Kathy had to pound it into the audience’s head how socially-superior they were, all the while just exploiting the media and Hollywood’s profitable trend of female and Black empowerment. I mean, it's not as if George hadn't already cast women and POC in positions of power already with his SW…???? He just didn’t run around telling everyone how socially-superior/a White-Savior he was like JJ and Kathy. Rian didn’t ruin SW— JJ had a good hand in that already. If a gun were pointed to my head and I were forced to choose TFA or TLJ, I’d genuinely go with TLJ without a moment’s hesitation. It was awful, but it wasn’t insulting to my intelligence like TFA.

    I’ve never considered myself a part of fandom— just someone who’s interested in the best of SW, and not that bothered by the awful parts to take it all so personally: and the awful parts include the films/TV-series etc, along with the loons on both sides of this fandom I can easily detach myself from. I'm sure it's not so easy for many who take SW more personally.

    The 101 PC agendas is the latest trend with the masses and needless to say Hollywood will exploit it for all its worth. Unfortunately, The Sequel and most of nuSW didn’t handle it well. But RO did. Agendas can be tolerable if there’s true talent to lead it. To ask for any major Hollywood blockbuster to leave out social/politcal agendas these days is asking to Hollywood to leave out a very profitable gimmick (and the major reason I avoid blockbusters like an STD-candidate).
    Last edited by farmer; 06-26-2019 at 07:31 PM.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by CellBlock1138 View Post
    Twitter should be destroyed.
    I don't think it should be destroyed, but people should understand that not every thought need be shared. No one else in the whole world cares, they've got bigger issues to deal with. Which then makes those comments look idiotic, especially when out of context.

    Conflict is Human nature, has been since the beginning of Man. Just look at our past. Now it's just more traceable due to the internet. Some people feel the need to comment on every subject even if it does not pertain to them, just to have their say on the matter.
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  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Masterfett View Post
    I don't think it should be destroyed, but people should understand that not every thought need be shared. No one else in the whole world cares, they've got bigger issues to deal with. Which then makes those comments look idiotic, especially when out of context.

    Conflict is Human nature, has been since the beginning of Man. Just look at our past. Now it's just more traceable due to the internet. Some people feel the need to comment on every subject even if it does not pertain to them, just to have their say on the matter.
    It's one of the absolute worst things on the internet as far as I'm concerned. It eventually makes everyone out to be an A hole.

    Twitter wasn't designed for what it's used for these days. It's not a conversational tool, or a tool for serious discussion. Its extreme character limit doesn't allow for that, so everyone talks in stupid soundbites and it often comes across as ridiculous. The fact that politics is a regular feature on it, too, is utterly lamentable. Even that clown in the White House uses it daily to spout his gibberish. And that it's used as an influence on politics is even more cause for concern.

    Also, it's not that "not every thought need be shared" or "No one else in the whole world cares" or that people's comments make them look "idiotic", such things are self evident. It's that there is no room for actual discourse or debate on a given subject because everyone limits what they say a paltry 280 characters and in fact, most tweets are less than an 8th of that. So, there's no nuance to any argument. No build up to a joke. No ability to properly explain anything, etc. Plus, and probably more worse, is that tweets are rarely followed up with more thought from the original tweeter.

    Another thing is the worrying power of the Twitterati mob, who gang together to # for some de jour cause, issue, or concern and that usually involves trying to merely silence opposition to a given stance or manifests itself in some sort of accusatory, finger pointing, witch hunt. This stems from the reality that there's no space for any real exchange of ideas on the platform. Eventually, nearly every Twitter feed ends up looking like a load of people shouting at each other and nobody listens to what's being said, except when it's something that they find agreeable.

    I truly despair when I hear the word "Twitter".

  8. #18
    I mean....social media is inherently self-indulgent. I suppose there should be a venue or outlet for that sort of thing. I get it. And predominately, it's harmless. What I find disturbing is what some seem to use it for. Almost all of us have that ONE person on our friends list, we all know who, who seems borderline obsessed with call-out culture. Very often now you'll see a certain type of person that tends to screen cap comments, entirely out of context, that they personally disagree with...re-post it on a venue where they know they will have backing and support...and then publicly shame said person to downright virtual lynch mob level attacks. This has even happened to me once, many moons ago, when I was young and dumb and didn't censor my political takes on societal and controversial issues. I didn't say anything factually inaccurate, but someone took extreme offense...and literally decided to screen cap my comment and post it in a privately run group in which they could gang up and attack me on personal levels. Literally hundreds of people that didn't even know me or the context of my comments! From that day forward, I opted to basically censor out 99% of any of my personal or political beliefs on social media. I just post memes, pop culture things, and stupid videos. But now even THAT can produce political attacks, I.E: I hated TLJ. It should be as simple as a film debate or critique, but some select people make it about things it's never been about. This has become the "call-out culture" go-to behavior, but what's startling now...is that for many fan-run blogs this is often employed. Social media comments are taken without consent or context and then publicly criticized and even shamed on blogs/websites...and they call it journalism. Websites like The Mary Sue particularly do this. It happens all the time anymore. The "Look what they said, what a terrible person, get him/her!" finger-pointing ideology, going to such extremes that people literally try to cause real-world consequences for simply saying something they disagree with on social media.

    But more on topic, what's depressing is how much this behavior has been injected into Star Wars. Back in 1999, people feuded all the time, but I never saw anything like what it's become today. To presume something so out there about a persons real life character based around what fictional characters they like in a space fantasy movie is...mental illness. These can have negative consequences, imagine if your employer sees that a hundred people are calling you a "Nazi" on social media! Do you think they're going to investigate why, do you think they'll see that it's because you (I don't know) love Darth Vader!? No! They're just going to see the accusations, not that it's coming from lunatic fringe. This can cause real problems, but how dare you call out their "crusade!" These people are insane!
    Last edited by MysterioMaximus; 06-28-2019 at 10:42 AM.
    'But I don’t want to go among mad people,’ Alice remarked. ‘Oh, you can’t help that,’ said the Cat: ‘We’re all mad here. I’m mad, you’re mad.’ ‘How do you know I’m mad?’ said Alice. ‘You must be,’ said the Cat, ‘or you wouldn’t have come here.’ - Lewis Carroll 'Alice's Adventures in Wonderland'

  9. #19
    I'm enjoying this thread. It's good to see this topic addressed head on given how much it's bled into our general discourse about SW.

    You're all making great points but I just wanted to make an amend here:

    Quote Originally Posted by MysterioMaximus View Post
    It began as basically just an attack on those who dislike TLJ.
    I was rounded up by the Twitter mob after TFA. I was already shaken by the fact a) SW had lost itself so completely and b) I was genuinely one of the very few voices saying as much. When I became the target of an unwarranted Twitter pile on from people who clearly didn't give a **** about SW, just their ideology, I fell out of love with social media as a whole.

    The thing is I'm liberal, progressive and all about equality. That shouldn't matter but it's important to note because I reckon there's an entire spectrum of political leaning on this thread, and not one of us thinks the extremists on either side are contributing positively to SW as a film series. And SW as a film series is and will always be what's most important to me.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by TJapes View Post
    I'm enjoying this thread. It's good to see this topic addressed head on given how much it's bled into our general discourse about SW.

    You're all making great points but I just wanted to make an amend here:



    I was rounded up by the Twitter mob after TFA. I was already shaken by the fact a) SW had lost itself so completely and b) I was genuinely one of the very few voices saying as much. When I became the target of an unwarranted Twitter pile on from people who clearly didn't give a **** about SW, just their ideology, I fell out of love with social media as a whole.

    The thing is I'm liberal, progressive and all about equality. That shouldn't matter but it's important to note because I reckon there's an entire spectrum of political leaning on this thread, and not one of us thinks the extremists on either side are contributing positively to SW as a film series. And SW as a film series is and will always be what's most important to me.
    Well said! This thread is a great example of how most Star Wars fans are; reasonable. Never once did it erupt into an argument from anyone. Sure some may like TLJ, sure many don't...it should be that simple. Debate is entirely fine and acceptable! But why I made this post and why I think it's important to talk about is what has come from it. The state of the community as a whole. People won't always agree, that's just a fact. Honestly, that can even be fun. It can encourage you to think differently. I've even given TLJ a second and third chance due to this and though personally I still can't stand it nor can I understand how someone can enjoy it, I don't want to CENSOR those who do. To each their own! After the originals, Star Wars has ALWAYS been a hotbed of debate. Honestly, you could even argue that Return of the Jedi first created a rift. Now my dad loves it, I suppose it grew on him, but at the time he was TERRIBLY disappointed. But there's become this notion of essentially mob-like attacking and shaming people, even accusing their real-life character of presumptive and harmful things, because they disagree with you...on a space opera fantasy movie. It's shocking! But more so it's unacceptable. SW is a spectrum of people, any fandom is. But you're absolutely correct! Extremism is a negative no matter what side...and it's gotten out of control.
    Last edited by MysterioMaximus; 06-30-2019 at 07:29 PM.
    'But I don’t want to go among mad people,’ Alice remarked. ‘Oh, you can’t help that,’ said the Cat: ‘We’re all mad here. I’m mad, you’re mad.’ ‘How do you know I’m mad?’ said Alice. ‘You must be,’ said the Cat, ‘or you wouldn’t have come here.’ - Lewis Carroll 'Alice's Adventures in Wonderland'

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