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Thread: Dark PhoeniX

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by lister View Post
    I agree. I've generally enjoyed the X-Men movies for the most part but if you look at the franchise as a whole, it's VERY repetitive. And it's only ever really been concerned with Wolverine, Xavier, Magneto, and once Jennifer Lawrence started playing her, Mystique. Most of the other characters have been treated pretty poorly.

    And yeah, there is NO way the MCU has spent a decade building a complex but coherent shared universe just to bog it down with the messy Fox X-Men continuity.
    I'm thinking Marvel starts peppering in a few mutants and doesn't even really acknowledge the X-men as a "Team" or "School" at first. The Avengers worked as a loose collective. Having an official TEAM like the X-men will change the dynamic of the universe too much.

    I truly hope Dark Phoenix goes well. I think, however, that it is time to start the X-men over. It was good but I'd like to see what the MCU machine can do with these characters.
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  2. #12
    I loved it... the new X-Men movies are my favorite of the series. I'm pumped for Phoenix and can't wait till 2019
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  3. #13
    I have a love/hate relationship with the X-Men films. The original was groundbreaking for the time, despite its flaws, but upon re-watching today it's very dated. I still find it enjoyable, but those flaws are so glaring and not to mention (due to contemporary times) you begin to see all new faults. Storm was always lousy in the film, the infamous "What happens to a toad when it's struck by lightening" line comes to mind. Sabertooth was also questionable at best.

    X2 is still sincerely great in my mind. The Nightcrawler opening is unbelievable incredible, the attack on the mansion is a great sequence, and the steal for me is Magneto's break-out.

    Last Stand is a film I don't think is nearly as bad as people claim it is, but I also certainly don't think it's good. One thing that always irritated me most was the total dismissal of Cyclops. It's so bad that by the end of the film when they're showing the graves, I half expected there to be Xavier's and Jean's and there's no grave for Scott. Hah! But it's so easy to talk about its flaws, everyone does, instead I'll talk about its shining moments. Grammar was Beast is the stand-out by far, great casting choice. I enjoyed the Angel escape. Magneto's always great. The Iceman vs. Pyro fight was fun, I love finally seeing Bobby in full ice form.

    Wolverine Origins is arguably the worst film in the entire franchise. I won't even go into the bad (Gambit's portrayal was embarrassingly bad), like Last Stand, so I will say the positive. They got Sabertooth right, very well acted. About the only saving grave of the film.

    The Wolverine I think it an average film. I enjoyed the stuff with him in Japan from the comics, but it's just not a super captivating story either. Not to mention giant mecha Silver Samurai is just...well...pretty corny. I know, I know, there's giant robots everywhere. Just it didn't seem to fit into this story to me.

    First Class was a film that honestly, I expected to be pure garbage. I thought they were really reaching bottom of the barrel when I read who was on the team. Banshee, Havok, Angel (not THE Angel), Beast, and Mystique? WHAT!? But then I saw the film and realized, it's essentially Magneto: Origins. This one blew me away, it was far better than expected.

    Days of Future Past is my personal favorite and actually one of my favorite superhero films ever. It's a film that sincerely made me get misty-eyed.

    Logan is another that just blew me away.

    Apocalypse was TERRIBLE in my mind. His entire motivation is...well..."RAWR! I'm bad. BECAUSE!" I hated the film.

    So for me, it's a mixed bag between absolutely incredible, mediocrity, and completely awful. Don't even get me started on the continuity though, more like what continuity. Fox tried and you can tell they just, one day, said "Ah screw it!" But when you look at it, the Fox X-Men franchise has now had a nearly two decade long run. That's a heck of an achievement, I believe that takes the record for longest running superhero film franchise. Actually yeah, it does, with Hugh being the actor to play a single superhero the longest as well.

    So I don't think that's anything to be ashamed of when retiring with...and I do think it's time to retire the franchise and reboot.
    'But I don’t want to go among mad people,’ Alice remarked. ‘Oh, you can’t help that,’ said the Cat: ‘We’re all mad here. I’m mad, you’re mad.’ ‘How do you know I’m mad?’ said Alice. ‘You must be,’ said the Cat, ‘or you wouldn’t have come here.’ - Lewis Carroll 'Alice's Adventures in Wonderland'

  4. #14
    I'm looking forward to Phoenix, but upon seeing the trailer, I was very disappointed to see them in those boring, generic uniforms from First Class. Apocalypse ended with them all finally wearing uniforms that pretty closely matched the comics/cartoons. Also gone were the boring black leather uniforms from the first three movies & DOFP. I had hoped they'd make one more movie so we could finally see the mutants in all their glory, just like how the Marvel movies have given us pretty spot-on costumes for the heroes & villains (and that includes the Fantastic Four 1 & 2). And now it looks like they're pretty much forgetting all about that and wasting their last opportunity. Here's hoping that what we saw in the trailer is not what we get throughout the actual movie.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by keknivek View Post
    Sony appears interested in making random offshoot movies)
    In their defense, they probably don't have the chops to do what MCU is doing and have learned from DC as well as their own mistakes. That this way is just easier.


    Quote Originally Posted by MysterioMaximus View Post
    I have a love/hate relationship with the X-Men films.
    I didn't quote the whole post for time constraints. Nice sum up though, and we seem to have the same opinion about the films. Give or take.

    TBH, it probably doesn't matter if this is good or not. Regardless of hat happens, I feel it's the last. And dear lord I hope so. lol
    I can't wait for someone with competence to take control over this Franchise.
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  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Masterfett View Post
    I didn't quote the whole post for time constraints. Nice sum up though, and we seem to have the same opinion about the films. Give or take.

    TBH, it probably doesn't matter if this is good or not. Regardless of hat happens, I feel it's the last. And dear lord I hope so. lol
    I can't wait for someone with competence to take control over this Franchise.
    The original X-Men films have some absolutely incredible films, it's just that they also have some dog awful ones too. They will always hold a fond place in my heart though. It'll be particularly difficult for me to let go of Patrick Stewart as Xavier. To be honest, if there were to be one carry-over from the old franchise into a new reboot, he'd be my choice. Everyone always made jokes about him being Xavier if they ever did X-Men, then it was announced they were doing it and he WAS cast and the reaction was essentially "Well duh! Of course he is!"

    Under the direction of Marvel in-house writers and Disney's MCU staff, X-Men has the potential to be bigger than even Avengers. I mean, I remember a time when X-Men was essentially the bread and butter of Marvel, even overtaking Spider-Man as top dog. They're certainly a force to be reckoned with. But with a reboot comes certain challenges.

    The first challenge would be...who do they put on the team? Bryan Singer did a sort of amalgam of the original team and the Giant-Sized team for his first film. I think you're kind of shoo-horned into not doing it entirely comic accurate. If you don't include Wolverine in the first film, people will ask "Where's Wolverine?" The fact is, many of the most popular character were not on the original team. This is why I kind of always defended Singer for sort of making his own canon instead of closely following the comics. With X-Men, I don't think you really can, all you can do it try to nail the caricatures right and pay homage to certain stories. One thing I think should be a focus though is it's the X-Men...not Wolverine and the X-Men.

    The second is how to introduce mutants into the MCU. Do you say they were always there and just in hiding? If that's some, is it even possible they'd be so good at hiding they even hid from SHIELD? Do you concoct some reason for their development like, I don't know, when the Chitari invaded some spore or whatever also came through the portal and effected the DNA of certain humans? How will it be done? I really don't know.

    Then there's casting. Will casual non-comic readers even accept, say, a non-Hugh Jackman Wolverine? Heaven forbid he be a tiny hairy dude.
    'But I don’t want to go among mad people,’ Alice remarked. ‘Oh, you can’t help that,’ said the Cat: ‘We’re all mad here. I’m mad, you’re mad.’ ‘How do you know I’m mad?’ said Alice. ‘You must be,’ said the Cat, ‘or you wouldn’t have come here.’ - Lewis Carroll 'Alice's Adventures in Wonderland'

  7. #17
    I think that's why First Class went in that direction, because we already seen the original team several times. Problem with that was that I didn't care for that setup, it felt more like an alternate universe to me.

    If the MCU absorbs the X-Men, I do feel it will be slightly different than what we've seen. Like mention previously, they'll just pepper in certain characters who work withing the larger story arc. As opposed to doing a proper X-Men team movie. Especially considering they have the Avengers to continue on.
    If all goes well they could eventually form a proper team once everyone is introduced, similar to how they approached Avengers. IDK, it's hard to say what they'll do. Like you say, were they always here in hiding from Shield, ala Inhumans? Or was it something else? This is where I felt MAOS failed, they veered off that path after season 1. Of looking for "items" of power or whatever.

    Maybe because it' the era I grew up reading about them, but I've always wanted Cyclops, Jean, Storm, Rogue(powered), Gambit, Beast, Iceman, Nighcrawler, and Wolverine as the core team, with other members popping in and out like the Animated series did. I still want to see that in a movie, but I don't think we ever will.
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  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by MysterioMaximus View Post
    But with a reboot comes certain challenges.

    The first challenge would be...who do they put on the team? Bryan Singer did a sort of amalgam of the original team and the Giant-Sized team for his first film. I think you're kind of shoo-horned into not doing it entirely comic accurate. If you don't include Wolverine in the first film, people will ask "Where's Wolverine?" The fact is, many of the most popular character were not on the original team. This is why I kind of always defended Singer for sort of making his own canon instead of closely following the comics. With X-Men, I don't think you really can, all you can do it try to nail the caricatures right and pay homage to certain stories. One thing I think should be a focus though is it's the X-Men...not Wolverine and the X-Men.

    The second is how to introduce mutants into the MCU. Do you say they were always there and just in hiding? If that's some, is it even possible they'd be so good at hiding they even hid from SHIELD? Do you concoct some reason for their development like, I don't know, when the Chitari invaded some spore or whatever also came through the portal and effected the DNA of certain humans? How will it be done? I really don't know.

    Then there's casting. Will casual non-comic readers even accept, say, a non-Hugh Jackman Wolverine? Heaven forbid he be a tiny hairy dude.
    I'll address the last thing first. Wolverine needs to be a short stocky feral character. Jackman was great, but we don't need Jackman Wolverine 2.0 we need MCU Wolverine. I think the best case scenario would be to introduce Wolverine as part of Alpha Flight. I know that's not how things went in comics, but a real world sort of grounding in something like Weapon X or Department H would still be best for him.
    **Personally, I'd like to see them pull out all the stops and show us a gathering of some of the other teams from around the world. We could get Alpha Flight, Excalibur, New Warriors, Shi'ar, Eternals, Starjammers, Fantastic Four, and the original X-men all in on something with SHIELD, the Avengers and the Guardians of the Galaxy. I know that's too much to expect, but a guy can dream.**

    The MCU is surprisingly really grounded in real-world stuff still. Tony, Steve, Bruce, Natasha, Clint, etc. are still human and ruled by Earth physics and Earth laws for the most part. However... they have introduced Thor and the 9 realms, Aliens from space, Doctor Strange / Scarlett Witch and god-knows-what they can do, supersuits, Pym particles, and gamma monsters so having mutants that can do various things isn't going to be too much of a stretch. This issue might come down to the attempt to keep some measure of grounding in reality. Yes, characters like Scarlett Witch can technically fly, but Captain Marvel just defies gravity (or at least in the comics she does). I have to assume we will be expected to accept a variety of these sort of powers once the mutants show up.

    I think I'd do the mutant thing gradually. Maybe the main team of Iceman, Cyclops, Jean, Beast and Angel have gotten together with Xavier and have been training and watching the Avengers but maybe not. I think Storm in Black Panther is a no brainer and I think we may see an Illuminati form before we see X-men. It will be interesting to see what becomes of the Inhumans once they do Eternals and Mutants?
    "The Marvel and Transformers team must share a lunch table.
    Star Wars must have sat with GI Joe team." ~ indysolo007


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  9. #19
    Actually, since Mutants were always feared anyways, the X-Men could still be in hiding. Thus not well know to the world, though I'm sure they were on Shield's radar at some level. They could have just been doing stealth missions prior to the Fox buyout.
    Wolverine? I don't think the casting need to be 100% accurate to that ferrel look in he comics, otherwise just animate a Wolverine via CGI like Rocket.
    Kidding aside short and stocky is fine, but lets not get too carried away here. They're gonna be limited to who casts well.

    Really that is something MCU has lacked until now, a Superman type character. Until Vision came along, no one could fly without assistance of equipment.
    The Hulk was the strongest, and each character had a specific skill set. Captain Marvel will be the first one who has multiple powers/abilities. And I'm curious to see how strong they've made her in the MCU.
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  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Masterfett View Post
    Actually, since Mutants were always feared anyways, the X-Men could still be in hiding. Thus not well know to the world, though I'm sure they were on Shield's radar at some level. They could have just been doing stealth missions prior to the Fox buyout.
    Wolverine? I don't think the casting need to be 100% accurate to that ferrel look in he comics, otherwise just animate a Wolverine via CGI like Rocket.
    Kidding aside short and stocky is fine, but lets not get too carried away here. They're gonna be limited to who casts well.

    Really that is something MCU has lacked until now, a Superman type character. Until Vision came along, no one could fly without assistance of equipment.
    The Hulk was the strongest, and each character had a specific skill set. Captain Marvel will be the first one who has multiple powers/abilities. And I'm curious to see how strong they've made her in the MCU.
    I forgot about Vision flying around somehow.

    I know you feel the MCU lacked a Superman type character, but I just never thought Superman was that compelling of a character. How do you threaten a basically indestructible being with "all" the powers. I feel like the Kryptonite "dust" the Batman uses in B v S was about as good as they could do to depower him enough for it to not be totally ridiculous for Bats and Sups to be fighting. How is Tony going to feel when he sees a character like Captain Marvel that can do everything he can do and without the suit?

    Powers are a really difficult thing to write sometimes. I feel like Jedi powers are incredibly arbitrary. Anakin can jump like 50 yards and land on the head of a droid over a lava river, but can't jump 20 feet over Obi Wan to the higher ground?

    It will be interesting to see how they write Jean Gray in this. The trailer just didn't give me a real feel for what to expect, it just jumped around and showed glimpses of everyone and a few smashed cars.
    "The Marvel and Transformers team must share a lunch table.
    Star Wars must have sat with GI Joe team." ~ indysolo007


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