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Thread: Why is "Solo" underperforming at the box office?

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Sith_Apprentice View Post
    [COLOR=#333333] She is also a committed social justice warrior and feminist
    bla bla blubberlutsch

    I actually liked L3-37. She was not a charming character but who says that a movie should only contain characters you agree with and you would share your house with.

    I would have liked Rey too except her hero's journey was nonexistent and her storyline botched, and then ruined in TLJ with bad retcons for TFA.

    (I did not like Holdo or Rose but not because they were female characters - they would have been badly written as men or aliens or droids as well.)

    Poe's big issue in TLJ is that his character arc was left hanging. He made an error in judgement early on and was not allowed to learn or grow from that.

    Okay, but what is wrong with "Solo"? I guess nothing is actually "wrong". The movie was entertaining and competently done, and as fan service I personally liked it very much (except for the naming scene which was dumb). The problem is that Disney aims for MORE BOOM, MORE BANG, MORE REVENUE all the time, and actually expects every movie to outperform the last one. Sorry, House of the Mouse, that doesn't work at all. "Solo" had a limited audience from the very beginning.

    The fan audience it aims at is served with all the right story points and all the inter-franchise links the writer could cram in (delightful, actually). The movie is even well told, and I like the performance of the actors despite all initial reservations.

    BUT

    Even within the fandom, there are people who just don't want this movie.
    Those whose headcanon has been established long ago.
    Those who are fine with some mystery and unknown details around the characters.
    Those for whom Harrison Ford can be the only Solo.
    Those who still go with the Old EU.

    And then there is the rest of the moviegoers, who only casually know the franchise.
    On them, the references are lost, and at least one of them will be irritating.
    The final fate of the main characters is already known.
    They did not ask for a resolution of some casual remarks about Han's past.
    They might miss the lightsaber duels.
    For those that know the bits Solo's past, the movie becomes predictable, playing "connect the dots".

    I predicted long ago that this will not be the movie to join everybody in the theaters, fan and non-fan alike, and spread the Gospel of Star Wars. Simply because it's a niche movie that, like all prequels, can only answer the question "how did they get there?" and not "where are they going?".

    And then there are the outward circumstances. First, the fact that Disney has maybe somewhat competent writers, but no great or outstanding ones. And they don't have any worldbuilder at all. And worst, they don't care about that (as was proven early on when they killed the Clone Wars series without even allowing for a resolution of the storylines). They arrogantly killed the old EU and then didn't plan for a new one, resurrecting old EU stuff randomly (and sometimes badly) instead of straightening out Star Wars lore. They didn't even care that their own movies don't match up (with TLJ destroying setups from TFA and obviously nobody planning for the cross-movie consistency). Fans are growing tired with that.

    Second, "Solo" was debated and planned into the ground from the beginning. Firing the directors, doubting Ron Howard, claiming that Ehrenreich doesn't get it, wailing about Harrison Ford. Neither Disney itself nor the press nor the fans had any confidence in this movie. The fans might have been (some still are) most obnoxious about it. Starting some SJW debate certainly doesn't help.

    And third, "Solo" has now to fight against all the errors from the past, with a mere 6 months after the previous movie, and right on top of that movie's DVD release. It's not franchise fatigue, it's franchise frustration.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Chewbacca View Post
    Keep it spoiler free, please.
    https://www.cbr.com/ron-howard-solo-...e-projections/

    In some corners of media, the movie is already being called a "flop." I would argue that is both premature and subjective, and I'm one of those who are skeptical about the need for such a movie, much less the recasting.
    But why are the numbers below predictions, particularly after a strong Thursday? I can identify just a handful of reasons for the average viewer:
    1 - Recasting. It's not Ford, Mayhew and Williams, so it's not Solo, Chewbacca and Calrissian. At least we got "Young Indiana Jones Adventures" on broadcast TV.
    2 - Brand Fatigue. It's been barely five months since "The Last Jedi."
    3 - Backlash. Whether it's conservative-specific (sorry, mods, but this is a legitimate discussion on the franchise far, far away [and if folks on here are not mature enough to handle it, then those who are, please PM me and we can take it to FB]) objections to TLJ subplots, anger over the portrayal of Luke in that movie, or general anti-Disney feeling over its stewardship of the saga, there is much more pure vitriol out there than was ever directed at the bearded godfather of the Gungans.
    It's a little of 1 and a lot of 3. I've seen countless videos online of fans objecting to Disney's treatment of Star Wars and refusing to see anything else until Disney gets the point.

    I have not seen one video or read one comment from a Star Wars fan anywhere wishing for fewer or even no new Star Wars films. It doesn't even make much sense, to be honest.

    Star Wars fans want Star Wars films, and they only have 2 requirements as a general rule -- it has to be good, and it has to honor the original trilogy. For a lot of fans, these new films have largely failed to do either. It isn't hard to figure out that shoving political ideologies down a paying customer's throat and then lecturing them when they don't enjoy it probably isn't a good idea either.

    Honestly, Disney could've avoided all this if they'd just been faithful to Star Wars.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Caas_Sandhri View Post
    Poe's big issue in TLJ is that his character arc was left hanging. He made an error in judgement early on and was not allowed to learn or grow from that.
    Are you sure? Early on he's all "let's all just fly in head on and blast our way through!" and loads of people die as a result because he can't see the bigger picture beyond blowing up what's in front of him. So gets demoted and and is thus out of the loop on future decisions and has to earn his way back into the good graces of leadership (granted the Poe / Holdo stuff is a bit of forced drama but it's needed for his arc). He witnesses the struggle leaders have in deciding to fight or deciding to run. He later applies this by recognizing the futility of the attack on the big gun on Crait and assesses the situation tactically as opposed to simply trying to blow stuff up. This pays off when suggests his plan to retreat and everyone looks at Leia and she's all "why are you looking at me? He's in charge!"
    Last edited by Internets; 05-28-2018 at 05:47 AM.

  4. #14
    Plain and simple Solo is a flop because of The Last Jedi.

    I hated TLJ but quit enjoyed Solo. A solid if not spectacular film.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Internets View Post
    Are you sure? Early on he's all "let's all just fly in head on and blast our way through!" and loads of people die as a result because he can't see the bigger picture beyond blowing up what's in front of him. So gets demoted and and is thus out of the loop on future decisions and has to earn his way back into the good graces of leadership (granted the Poe / Holdo stuff is a bit of forced drama but it's needed for his arc). He witnesses the struggle leaders have in deciding to fight or deciding to run. He later applies this by recognizing the futility of the attack on the big gun on Crait and assesses the situation tactically as opposed to simply trying to blow stuff up. This pays off when suggests his plan to retreat and everyone looks at Leia and she's all "why are you looking at me? He's in charge!"
    Interesting interpretation, I'd like to disagree though.

    As far as Crait goes, I always thought that he had learned nothing - the attack on the AT-M6's reflects his earlier bomber run. The rickety flyers are not able to do any damage to the walkers, which was painfully obvious to everybody, and almost all the pilots are killed - again! This was not tactical thinking at all, it was a desperate attempt to go out in a blaze of glory because there were no options left (just like Finn tries at the end, with no good reason as the AT-M6's would have shot him down if he had continued). I can see that Poe is groomed (at least by the movie director) to become the next resistance leader, but I really wondered why him, because everything Holdo said about him is true. (And the whole retreat was a rather mysterious action, as no one asked where Luke was coming from, and no one knew where to go, and they would have gotten stuck anyway if not for Rey removing the boulders.)

    Holdo on the other hand keeping Poe out of the loop seemed like a spiteful move by someone who has a beef with Poe (which came out of thin air, as no history of the two characters was established). The resistance leadership was small enough as it was; there was no reason to hide the plan from Poe; Poe wasn't even going to learn anything from not knowing something (well, duh!). Holdo looked to me like someone who just hated, disrespected, and despised Poe and wanted him out of the way. Which then backfired in the familiar way.

    Between Holdo and Poe, they destroyed the resistance. Good work everyone!

    And Leia acted out of character by first slapping Poe and then shooting him. That was cheap.

  6. #16
    Rian Johnson got to teach everyone a lesson at Ron Howard's expense.

  7. #17
    Could it be immense competition with better movies, lack of interest in the concept, and the toxicity of the fanbase killed this movie? No no, Rian Johnson did this! You SJW hack fraud!

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Caas_Sandhri View Post
    As far as Crait goes, I always thought that he had learned nothing - the attack on the AT-M6's reflects his earlier bomber run. The rickety flyers are not able to do any damage to the walkers, which was painfully obvious to everybody, and almost all the pilots are killed - again! This was not tactical thinking at all, it was a desperate attempt to go out in a blaze of glory because there were no options left (just like Finn tries at the end, with no good reason as the AT-M6's would have shot him down if he had continued).
    You have to show and not tell though. So during the attack you see dudes getting picked off and Poe realises the futility of it. You can't just have him go "No, let's not go and attack. Let's all have a nice sit down and a cup of tea and come up with something else" as that would be terrible both dramatically and visually.

    I can see that Poe is groomed (at least by the movie director) to become the next resistance leader, but I really wondered why him, because everything Holdo said about him is true. (And the whole retreat was a rather mysterious action, as no one asked where Luke was coming from, and no one knew where to go, and they would have gotten stuck anyway if not for Rey removing the boulders.)
    They didn't know the boulders were there. Also, pretty sure Poe does say something about Luke getting in so there must be a way out. They see the foxes legging it as well.

    Holdo on the other hand keeping Poe out of the loop seemed like a spiteful move by someone who has a beef with Poe (which came out of thin air, as no history of the two characters was established). The resistance leadership was small enough as it was; there was no reason to hide the plan from Poe; Poe wasn't even going to learn anything from not knowing something (well, duh!). Holdo looked to me like someone who just hated, disrespected, and despised Poe and wanted him out of the way. Which then backfired in the familiar way.
    There was reason to 'hide the plan' the same way she hides the plan from Derek the toilet attendant. He'd been demoted. Just because he's a main character to the audience doesn't mean that everyone in the film has to treat him like he's super important. It's not my favourite portion of the film and a bit clumsy in places but I'm not on board with the idea that everyone in-universe has to treat these characters as special just because their face is on the poster.

    Between Holdo and Poe, they destroyed the resistance. Good work everyone!
    Holdo's plan was alright in the circumstances. It was only DJ telling the FO about it that got the little ships blown up. And Poe, yes, got people killed, and then learned from that and ordered a retreat.

    And Leia acted out of character by first slapping Poe and then shooting him. That was cheap.
    If she admonishes him once for disobeying orders and then admonishes him again for disobeying, I'd say that was in character.
    Last edited by Internets; 05-28-2018 at 07:53 AM.

  9. #19
    The justified backlash against "The Last Jedi" has played a part, but the main factors are likely...

    1: Wilful poor casting of a younger Han with an actor with zero resemblance to Harrison Ford when other far better choices where available. The character is not the same as recasting a Batman, Bond, Sherlock etc. its a character created & defined by one actor.

    2: Pointless redesign of the Millennium Falcon, It should look "newer" but not that drastically different. The less detailed exterior set looks like a something cobbled together for a 80's TV Movie. We're expected to believe it changes that much in the 10 years before Star Wars then stays the same for 35 years.

    3: Have idiot writer to declare long established ladies man Lando is "Pan ******" before the Movie opens. thus alienating multi ticket buying Families + Black men already disappointed at Finn turning out to be a janitor rather than "Jedi" lead.

    4: Having ruined Han's character in the Force Awaken by destroying his Marriage with Leia, regressing his character development back 35 years & killing him in an idiotic rather than heroic way, why should audiences care?
    Last edited by Quatermass; 05-28-2018 at 07:53 AM.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Quatermass View Post
    The justified backlash against "The Last Jedi" has played a part, but the main factors are likely...

    1: Wilful poor casting of a younger Han with an actor with zero resemblance to Harrison Ford when other far better choices where available. The character is not the same as recasting a Batman, Bond, Sherlock etc. its a character created & defined by one actor.

    2: Pointless redesign of the Millennium Falcon, It should look "newer" but not that drastically different. The less detailed exterior set looks like a something cobbled together for a 80's TV Movie. We're expected to believe it changes that much in the 10 years before Star Wars then stays the same for 35 years.

    3: Have idiot writer to declare long established ladies man Lando is "Pan ******" before the Movie opens. thus alienating multi ticket buying Families + Black men already disappointed at Finn turning out to be a janitor rather than "Jedi" lead.

    4: Having ruined Han's character in the Force Awaken by destroying his Marriage with Leia, regressing his character development back 35 years & killing him in an idiotic rather than heroic way, why should audiences care?
    Only Star Wars 'fans' care about any of that and despite what they say most will go and see it. It's the normal people who aren't particularly interested in Solo probably because it's a bit too niche. It's also fallen a few weeks after Infinity War and a week or so after Deadpool 2.
    Last edited by Internets; 05-28-2018 at 07:57 AM.

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