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Thread: Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious Anthology Film?

  1. #1

    Sheev Palpatine/Darth Sidious Anthology Film?

    Since the announcement of the anthology films I have gotten my hopes up for one that explores the back story of Palpatine and how he became a Sith along with how how he fell into the whole "Take over the galaxy" mindset that he had. I know James Luceno published a book (Star Wars: Darth Plagueis) detailing Palpatine's past and how he came in contact with Plagueis but it's sort of a mixture of non-canon and canon now because it was right before the acquisition of LucasFilm by Disney and Luceno used parts of it for the Tarkin book I believe. I think it would be fun to explore the past of the character though. Also, who do you guys think could play a younger version of him if a film came to be?


  2. #2
    It might be interesting to explore, but probably more so in book form. Especially if Ian doesn't portray the character, so I'd definitely pass if that were the case.
    I've always wondered how he was able to rise to power so secretively, and how he was recruited to the Darkside.
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  3. #3
    To be honest, it's something Disney would even try their hand at....Mailificent? But in all seriousness, he's an archetype character that IMO doesn't require any cinematic exploration as a somewhat 'tragic' character unlike Anakin/Darth Vader. So to put Palpatine in the same cinematic spotlight would be like justifying the 'need' for say Psycho IV: The Beginning. I agree there is potential good material out there in terms of publications, but as a movie wouldn't be my cup of tea.
    A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing. -George Lucas

  4. #4
    Yeah. I don't think he deserves a "tragic" backstory or anything like that. Something relatable maybe for the audience's sake, but I think it would just be neat to see someone that was evil from the get-go come into being a bit more refined with it. Basically moving from blind aggression to subtlety which is what is cool about the character and we get to see it more in the prequels. Palpatine/Sidious is not a stereotypically so evil in the end though. A bad guy for the sake of being a bad guy I feel. I think it would be interesting to see how and what they would do different or the same from the Plagueis novel by Luceno. That said, I like the idea of picturing things cinematically, but I do agree that keeping it in a book format probably would be better altogether in this case especially given how niche this might be in comparison to other story offerings, but then again I would love seeing Palpatine's back story played out and I'm sure I'm not the only one that would love it and why I made the thread to discuss it.

    As for Ian McDiarmid not portraying the character he'd almost have to if the character is a younger version, he is getting older. So it would make sense to recast it from a practical standpoint, but then again LucasFilm did do a CGI recreation of Tarkin for Rogue One and a small little scene with Leia at the end. In theory, McDiarmid could do it - if able, but be aged via CGI to look ultimately younger. That said those last two examples of CGI work forces the audience into a slight uncanny valley type deal, at least for me and a few I've talked with about Rogue One. I love Rogue One (as I do with mostly everything I've watched), but that would be heavily distracting.


  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthTyrannosaur View Post
    Palpatine/Sidious is not a stereotypically so evil in the end though.
    Well, I suppose Lucas was thinking a little differently when developing his archetypes for his space opera. Point is, is that evil archetypes DO have roots somewhere. If we get it down to basics, it's almost explaining how the devil became the devil. So if there is any kind of 'tragedy' involved in this, the story would basically have to elaborate Palpatine's apparent 'fall from grace' whose job is to tempt those to make choices to further his cause (that's basically the devil's job in any event).

    Now on a cinematic level, it would elevate the villain's status to a epic level like that of the hero, but by doing so it creates a blanket of sympathy for the villain which is some way creates a level of guilt for the hero. That's how I see it. IDK, call me old-school, but maybe there are situations you simply just don't feel any sympathy towards the villain.
    A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing. -George Lucas

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Deak_Starkiller View Post
    Well, I suppose Lucas was thinking a little differently when developing his archetypes for his space opera. Point is, is that evil archetypes DO have roots somewhere. If we get it down to basics, it's almost explaining how the devil became the devil. So if there is any kind of 'tragedy' involved in this, the story would basically have to elaborate Palpatine's apparent 'fall from grace' whose job is to tempt those to make choices to further his cause (that's basically the devil's job in any event).

    Now on a cinematic level, it would elevate the villain's status to a epic level like that of the hero, but by doing so it creates a blanket of sympathy for the villain which is some way creates a level of guilt for the hero. That's how I see it. IDK, call me old-school, but maybe there are situations you simply just don't feel any sympathy towards the villain.
    Oh I definitely agree with you here! What I meant by the stereotypically evil is the whole "evil for the sake of evil" as Palpatine's disposition is more amoral than anything else. Think of it like Transformers Generation 1 Cartoon Megatron or so. He's basically stereotypical 80s cartoon bad guy evil. He does evil for the sake of being evil because he's evil basically. Palpatine is more in his own league in comparison to someone like G1 Cartoon Megatron. I mean the only thing that gets hammy is the scene in Palpatine's office against Mace Windu when luring Anakin into becoming Vader with the whole "Unlimited power!" deal, but to be fair I think that is a case of bad writing more than anything else.

    You made a really good point about the genesis of villainy though as there is always a reason for "the fall from grace" more or less as the origin point for every villain nowadays. The archetype for it dates way back in our histories and story-telling abilities from way back when in ancient times. What is necessarily true about it I feel is that it takes into account that not everyone is born of and for evil, and if so they are a rarity. I don't think Palpatine needs to have that kind of "hero's fall" though. I know in the Plagueis novel he is portrayed as being almost like a unrefined evil until Plagueis came along. A spoiled rich kid that would just do whatever the heck he wanted. So that could potentially be interesting to see play out on the big screen (to me at least, but I'm probably a minority here).

    Still, happy to discuss this and what not. Get another's opinion.


  7. #7
    I'd have to guess the powers that be would consider the PT all they would deem needed (at least feature film-wise) of this character's stories. I'd be surprised if this topic is revisited directly, esp w/ the Darth Plagueis novel available in the Legends (or is it canon?) realm. I'm thinking after Rebels, much of the viewable narratives created will focus on the current films, characters and events, but-who really knows, just a guess. WOW!! Psycho IV, I remember recording that on VHS on it's premiere night on Showtime in '90, cool flick man, there's one you don't hear of very often.
    Last edited by jpolli666; 09-20-2017 at 09:41 AM.

  8. #8
    Yeah, I wasn't necessarily implying Psycho IV was a bad film, in fact, some consider it to be a worthy successor to the original Psycho, pretty much dismissing the two other sequels.

    Now it's interesting Megatron is mentioned since the motto on his Tech Spec reads, "Peace through tyranny." This sort of implies that his motives are justified to fulfill a greater cause albeit a bit misplaced (much like Palpatine's offer to the Republic as a 'safe and secure society'). Now some of the material of those Tech Specs did make their way into the cartoons, it's just a bit of a bummer we really didn't get to know that side of Megatron.
    Last edited by Deak_Starkiller; 09-20-2017 at 06:57 PM.
    A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing. -George Lucas

  9. #9
    I hear ya- it was a great flick, I thought they were all pretty decent besides the dreadful VV remake, and the new series was stellar. But IV kinda slips under the radar nowadays w/ that prequel series being so good. I met Mick Garris a few years ago and he was tickled to talk about it again, very appreciative of the fans.
    Last edited by jpolli666; 09-21-2017 at 07:40 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jpolli666 View Post
    I'd have to guess the powers that be would consider the PT all they would deem needed (at least feature film-wise) of this character's stories. I'd be surprised if this topic is revisited directly, esp w/ the Darth Plagueis novel available in the Legends (or is it canon?) realm. I'm thinking after Rebels, much of the viewable narratives created will focus on the current films, characters and events, but-who really knows, just a guess. WOW!! Psycho IV, I remember recording that on VHS on it's premiere night on Showtime in '90, cool flick man, there's one you don't hear of very often.
    I feel like because the Plagueis novel was published so close to the split and the fact Luceno included references from it in Tarkin that has moved to more of an indeterminate/quasi-canon sort of state actually. I mean that's my fan interpretation next to the official one. The official status is a lot more blatant there with it being in Legends and labeled as such. Kind of why I wanted to see it redone, modified, and basically made into an anthology film concerning that officially, once again, we don't know much about Palpatine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deak_Starkiller View Post
    Yeah, I wasn't necessarily implying Psycho IV was a bad film, in fact, some consider it to be a worthy successor to the original Psycho, pretty much dismissing the two other sequels.

    Now it's interesting Megatron is mentioned since the motto on his Tech Spec reads, "Peace through tyranny." This sort of implies that his motives are justified to fulfill a greater cause albeit a bit misplaced (much like Palpatine's offer to the Republic as a 'safe and secure society'). Now some of the material of those Tech Specs did make their way into the cartoons, it's just a bit of a bummer we really didn't get to know that side of Megatron.
    Heh. I didn't think you were, but I do feel the whole "tragic backstory" is a bit overplayed in some circles; however we can get into a nature versus nurture argument here and how that is impactful in both life and in fiction. Bit too philosophical though maybe, not that I would mind horribly. I studied a bit of sociology and human diversity in my general education credits for college. So was kind of fun.

    Megatron's backstory varies significantly from continuity. The original cartoon basically is the one that is "evil for the sake of doing evil" more or less with being built to lead, the Marvel Comics he wants to push the Decepticons and Cybertron into a major military powerhouse in their galaxy (and universe), or a combination of both actually . In things like the IDW comics and somewhat in other continuities, he's more of a protagonist and pragmatist in his approach. What usually sparks him is a desire for change and causing a revolution as there's a disparity on Cybertron enforced by a corrupt Senate. Basically they believed the alt-mode of the individual defines their job/role in their society and in the IDW comics its called "Functionalism" while in the newer Aligned it's not named, but it is similar to a caste system enforced by the previous Prime and the corrupt Senate they have. In the newer aligned continuity that is an after-effect of the occupation by the Quintessons though. He wants to lead a revolution to change that and he either succumbs to his own jealousy or pride and that's usually how the war between him and Optimus starts. Optimus is basically made a Prime and then it all goes to hell because Megatron wanted it. What's kind of interesting is that he wanted it because he feels Optimus isn't really an effective leader and would continue the way things are because of a lack of trust and pride though. He develops the "Peace through tyranny" motto in those continuities as a result of dealing with a caste-system or functionalism as it's called in the G1 IDW comics. The Bay films are somewhat different, it was a combination of pride, self-importance, being a student of the Fallen, and defense of Cybertron. There's other continuities there, but those are the ones I have paid the most attention to so why I'm sharing.

    Quote Originally Posted by jpolli666 View Post
    I hear ya- it was a great flick, I thought they were all pretty decent besides the dreadful VV remake, and the new series was stellar. But IV kinda slips under the radar nowadays w/ that prequel series being so good. I met Mick Garris a few years ago and he was tickled to talk about it again, very appreciative of the fans.
    Wow, that's really cool! Always awesome to meet a celebrity! Sounds like a cool experience too.


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