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Thread: The Last Jedi - General Film Discussion Thread

  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkArtist View Post
    Kylo Ren and Rey having tea parties LOL.. yeah the milking of the sea cow was not needed at all, the Canto Bight scene was meh at best (as was the love arc of Finn and Rose), the imaginary Jedi at the end was cool to me but my heart was broken seeing Luke collapse at the end and disappear.. I left the theater with a WTF look on my face as well as a tear.. I felt like my hero really died in real life.
    I wanted to feel that way at the end but the character is so removed from the one I grew up with that it didn’t really feel like I lost Luke Skywalker, it was Jake that died.

    I just read an article that basically said that so much of the criticism of the film is from male rights activists that it can all be ignored. The editor continued to write, “They want the past back, just like a certain other angry white guy who is portrayed as a somewhat pathetic figure in the films.”

    As inaccurate as that stupid sentence is, I should have never had to read that about Luke Skywalker. Disney has turned Luke into an allegory for WASPs in modern America, disgruntled, shut in, useless, waiting to die while a heroine saves the day. It infuriates me, I won’t give in to my anger though, because that’s what the real Luke Skywalker taught me.

    I am a feminist, I studied philosophy in college. Bastardizing male characters with a rich history to make female characters look good is not feminism. Look at Mad Max Fury Road, that’s feminism in a sci-fi or action movie, equality not just in how crucial they are to the plot or success of the heroes, but they’re also treated as full people deserving of respect.

    Contrast that with Poe and Finn being rabid dogs that need to be reigned in by women, Ackbar dying offscreen, Luke being useless and getting attacked rather violently by who we’re supposed to consider a hero? Rey straight up hits an old man in the back of the head because her space boyfriend told her a different version of the same story. Could we imagine Luke kicking Yoda because he didn’t tell him Vader was his Dad? Why are we supposed to treat that as acceptable behavior from either of them? Because Rey is good. Why? Because.

    There has been inequity in film for over a hundred years, men portrayed as heroes while women are useless and need saving. It is time for that to end, but creating the opposite of that is not feminism or justice, it’s just as wrong as the last 100+ years of film. Disney could have given the OT heroes good send offs and let them pass the torch, instead they killed both of the male leads in embarrassing fashion. That’s not my biggest complaint against the films, but it is a complaint.

    I hope that no one thinks I’m simply a reactionary. I consider myself progressive, ideologically I agree with every message in TLJ, anti-war, anti-unchecked capitalism, pro-animal rights, feminist. Unfortunately the way Disney has decided to get all of these messages across is regressive and just creates more division. Far left hails it as visionary, far right says its feminazi propaganda. The rest of us are left to make what we can out of it, for me, I didn’t enjoy it as a film and especially don’t like how it fits with other Star Wars films.

  2. #462
    The worst part of all this feminist stuff is that, of all movies to make a big deal out of its inclusion, they pick Star Wars. Apparently Kathleen Kennedy and everyone else overly hyping it forgot that Princess Leia was always strong, always a leader, and yet still loved by men and women equally. And who was the original number one leader of the Rebellion - that's right, Mon Mothma! No one complained about that! Beru Lars - she stood up to Owen about Luke's treatment way back in '77, and no one cared. And speaking of strong female characters in Star Wars, the prequels would show us exactly where Leia gets her personality from, and that was from Padme, another strong female. But unlike Disney's vision, Lucas's movies had the males and females as equals, and few, if anyone, had issues with that either. And the best part of it - no one had to hype it! You had characters girls and boys alike could look up to, just because they were who they were. What's happening now is just plain sad and totally unnecessary.

  3. #463
    YavinTemplePilot- I think you really hit the nail on the head here, at least for me. I don't like to get too political, and I consider myself to be in the middle, neither liberal or conservative (Like DJ, don't join hahaha). Anyways, I love the new female characters, mainly Jyn and Rey. However I do agree that they are going out of there way with Rey especially to make her superior than everyone else. Which okay, she's the hero, that's cool. But the plot with Holdo and Poe is what kinda annoyed me a little. Poe is made to look like a fool, while Holdo is supposed to have been doing the right, "smart" thing all along.... I definitely agree that making strong female characters should not be at the expense of good male characters as well. Most of my complaints with TLJ weren't so much about the politics, but it can get quite annoying when Rian Johnson and co. give themselves a pat on the back for all these far-left progressive plot points.... last time I checked Johnson was a white dude himself so why make them all evil or look like fools in his movie? Idk I try not to let it bother me, but sometimes, honestly it does. There's just too much talk about it (gender, race, etc.)
    "We have hope. Rebellions are built on hope." -Jyn Erso, Rogue One: A Star Wars Story

  4. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by bob_solo View Post
    The worst part of all this feminist stuff is that, of all movies to make a big deal out of its inclusion, they pick Star Wars. Apparently Kathleen Kennedy and everyone else overly hyping it forgot that Princess Leia was always strong, always a leader, and yet still loved by men and women equally. And who was the original number one leader of the Rebellion - that's right, Mon Mothma! No one complained about that! Beru Lars - she stood up to Owen about Luke's treatment way back in '77, and no one cared. And speaking of strong female characters in Star Wars, the prequels would show us exactly where Leia gets her personality from, and that was from Padme, another strong female. But unlike Disney's vision, Lucas's movies had the males and females as equals, and few, if anyone, had issues with that either. And the best part of it - no one had to hype it! You had characters girls and boys alike could look up to, just because they were who they were. What's happening now is just plain sad and totally unnecessary.
    This. 100% this.

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by bob_solo View Post
    The worst part of all this feminist stuff is that, of all movies to make a big deal out of its inclusion, they pick Star Wars. Apparently Kathleen Kennedy and everyone else overly hyping it forgot that Princess Leia was always strong, always a leader, and yet still loved by men and women equally. And who was the original number one leader of the Rebellion - that's right, Mon Mothma! No one complained about that! Beru Lars - she stood up to Owen about Luke's treatment way back in '77, and no one cared. And speaking of strong female characters in Star Wars, the prequels would show us exactly where Leia gets her personality from, and that was from Padme, another strong female. But unlike Disney's vision, Lucas's movies had the males and females as equals, and few, if anyone, had issues with that either. And the best part of it - no one had to hype it! You had characters girls and boys alike could look up to, just because they were who they were. What's happening now is just plain sad and totally unnecessary.
    I couldn’t agree more. They could have easily had a female Jedi protagonist, which is the only thing the OT and PT lacked, without ruining the OT and PT protagonists. It’s like equality wasn’t good enough, they wanted revenge. As a whole, Star Wars has underrepresented women historically, but the ones it has featured have always been ******es that could match any of the men. Leia was just as much of a part of their success as Han.

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by YavinTemplePilot View Post

    I am a feminist, I studied philosophy in college. Bastardizing male characters with a rich history to make female characters look good is not feminism. Look at Mad Max Fury Road, that’s feminism in a sci-fi or action movie, equality not just in how crucial they are to the plot or success of the heroes, but they’re also treated as full people deserving of respect.
    This is well said!



    The last thing I'll say about TLJ (after having watched it 4 times) is that besides all the other things one might dislike or like about TLJ, I personally think the thing that ruins the film the most is the lack of continuity with TFA and how everything that was building the storyline in TFA is either deconstructed... or totally ignored. A trilogy has to have substance, and the 3 movies has to be tied together, it can't be done if you let different realisator do what they want and reboot everything with each film.

    If the very same movie was a stand alone film, without anything regarding the Skywalker family or the storyline of TFA, I probably would have enjoyed it better. You made the parallel with Mad Max : I dislked Mad Max 2 and 3 because in my opinion they didn't catch the essence of the first movie really well, but I have loved Fury Road as it immediately starts with the action and it does its own thing without having to explain or tie things together.
    "Bobby U-Wing"

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by Sturm86 View Post
    This is well said!



    The last thing I'll say about TLJ (after having watched it 4 times) is that besides all the other things one might dislike or like about TLJ, I personally think the thing that ruins the film the most is the lack of continuity with TFA and how everything that was building the storyline in TFA is either deconstructed... or totally ignored. A trilogy has to have substance, and the 3 movies has to be tied together, it can't be done if you let different realisator do what they want and reboot everything with each film.

    If the very same movie was a stand alone film, without anything regarding the Skywalker family or the storyline of TFA, I probably would have enjoyed it better. You made the parallel with Mad Max : I dislked Mad Max 2 and 3 because in my opinion they didn't catch the essence of the first movie really well, but I have loved Fury Road as it immediately starts with the action and it does its own thing without having to explain or tie things together.
    That right there is my biggest problem with the whole thing. The feminism, social agenda stuff, assassination of Luke's character etc etc etc...all terrible. The biggest offense was not acknowledging TFA, whether you like it or not, came before it. I guess in this world of millennials with a 6 second attention span it really doesn't matter if a film from 2 years ago that that set everything up is just ignored.

  8. #468
    Quote Originally Posted by YavinTemplePilot View Post
    The editor continued to write, “They want the past back, just like a certain other angry white guy who is portrayed as a somewhat pathetic figure in the films.”

    As inaccurate as that stupid sentence is, I should have never had to read that about Luke Skywalker.
    It's referring to Kylo.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Internets View Post
    It's referring to Kylo.
    Uh... Kylo explicitly says to kill the past, plus look at his well conditioned hair, he’s just a diamond in the rough that needs a big strong independent woman to come along and fix him.

    Remember, we’re making up for lost time here.

  10. #470
    Kylo's all about wanting the past back in TFA and the start of TLJ. And right below that line in the article is a massive picture of Kylo.

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