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Thread: Sabine Wren & Stormtrooper - MS08

  1. #21
    Emperor's Hand saddestmoon's Avatar
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    I like her character. I also don't get the criticisim of her 'graffiti' behaviour, and don't see what any of the fuss is around depicting this onscreen.

    Considering the graffiti is symbolising the resistence to an obviously evil empire / tyranny, I don't see anything wrong at all with it as a mode of expression.
    Despite whatever has been seen in SW before, there's no reason why graffiti cannot be shown (it didn't need to have been shown previously in mandalore culture, for it to exist, and who knows, perhaps Sabine isn't your 'typical' Mandalore).
    In real world scenarios (as well as fictional) cultures' change / adapt during periods of oppression and war: often is the case that the normal rules of what consitutes society and culture completely changes under wartime conditions.

    One more thing: I wouldn't liken the grafitti shown thus far as vandalism either. If sabine went around trashing things indiscriminately scrawling graffitti on anything (Imperial or not), without intent / purpose / etc... then perhaps one could argue it from a vandalism POV - but thus far, in the context of the show, it's looks fairly clear that it's an act of defiance, against the Empire.

    Just my thoughts on the matter

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by saddestmoon View Post
    I like her character. I also don't get the criticisim of her 'graffiti' behaviour, and don't see what any of the fuss is around depicting this onscreen.

    Considering the graffiti is symbolising the resistence to an obviously evil empire / tyranny, I don't see anything wrong at all with it as a mode of expression.
    It's not the graffiti. It's the context that the graffiti appears in.

    Quote Originally Posted by saddestmoon View Post
    Despite whatever has been seen in SW before, there's no reason why graffiti cannot be shown (it didn't need to have been shown previously in mandalore culture, for it to exist, and who knows, perhaps Sabine isn't your 'typical' Mandalore).
    By Jove, Holmes! Brilliant observation! How do you do it?

    Sorry, couldn't help myself...

    Quote Originally Posted by saddestmoon View Post
    In real world scenarios (as well as fictional) cultures' change / adapt during periods of oppression and war: often is the case that the normal rules of what consitutes society and culture completely changes under wartime conditions.
    That would be a fine objection, if Mandalorian culture wasn't explicitly the war and warrior-centric product of thousands of years of warring, war-torn warfare.

    Quote Originally Posted by saddestmoon View Post
    I wouldn't liken the grafitti shown thus far as vandalism either. If sabine went around trashing things indiscriminately scrawling graffitti on anything (Imperial or not), without intent / purpose / etc... then perhaps one could argue it from a vandalism POV - but thus far, in the context of the show, it's looks fairly clear that it's an act of defiance, against the Empire.
    The vandalism comment was specifically "real world" (though I wouldn't be surprised if this character motivates at least a few dumb young punks to go "tagging" their neighbours' garages). My concern so far as the show goes is that A: the character they've chosen for it is supposedly a Mandalorian, and B: it feels more like writing-by-committee than unencumbered storytelling (ex: there's a weird symmetry between Sabine's armour/graffiti and the decos on the explicitly "let's sell this to a specific demographic" Nerf "Rebelle" range).
    WTB/WTTF Star Wars Black Series 6" Han Solo "Mudtrooper" version (multiples).

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by RhyYees View Post
    "Poochie"-ing is when one shoehorns a so-called trendy character into a series, yes? I'm not sure in what way Sabine's a Poochie. Because she's an urban artist?
    But that's exactly what they're doing : /

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Internets View Post
    But that's exactly what they're doing : /
    Eh, not really. They gave her unique characteristics, it's not the same thing. It would be "Poochie"-ing if she says "Totes hilar" or "supes cray cray" or something like that.
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  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Revanfan1 View Post
    They gave her unique characteristics, it's not the same thing.
    For a given value of "unique"...

    Quote Originally Posted by Revanfan1 View Post
    It would be "Poochie"-ing if she says "Totes hilar" or "supes cray cray" or something like that.
    "That is so wizard!"
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  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by BlasTech View Post
    "That is so wizard!"
    I have never heard anyone say that in real life. Ever.
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  7. #27
    Oh groovy. Mando Avril Lavigne. And it's a Mando. Who's a Rebel. Who's a Mando. Can someone say any excuse for a Fett reference?
    Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Revanfan1 View Post
    I have never heard anyone say that in real life. Ever.
    Irrelevant. The point is the cringe-worthy attempt to be "hip", not the thing in question being part of a fictional contemporary Western Earth milieu.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oddball_Fett View Post
    Oh groovy. Mando Avril Lavigne. And it's a Mando. Who's a Rebel. Who's a Mando. Can someone say any excuse for a Fett reference?
    LOL
    WTB/WTTF Star Wars Black Series 6" Han Solo "Mudtrooper" version (multiples).

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by saddestmoon View Post
    One more thing: I wouldn't liken the grafitti shown thus far as vandalism either. If sabine went around trashing things indiscriminately scrawling graffitti on anything (Imperial or not), without intent / purpose / etc... then perhaps one could argue it from a vandalism POV - but thus far, in the context of the show, it's looks fairly clear that it's an act of defiance, against the Empire.
    That is vandalism by definition. Whether or not it's an acceptable mode of expression depends on a person's subjective point of view. That's the whole point. Most against the Empire would say it's fine. Most for the Empire would say it isn't. As graffiti in this context is ultimately political speech. Same thing happened in ancient Rome when the peasants were unhappy with their Ceasar. But if they got caught writing it they were in trouble.

    My concerns about the character aside, I personally think this portrayal is appropriate in this context - the rebels against the Empire. It's realistic in that sense and probably the kind of thing that would happen. Though I can't deny the obvious urban hip-hop influence of the image for the sake of coolness factor and appealing to modern kids. At that point graffiti goes back to its curious nature - it is both art *and* vandalism at the same time, depending on one's point of view. If in areas where it's allowed it's just art. If not, it's just vandalism. But if it represents protest, it can be both at once.
    Don't hit me with them negative waves so early in the morning

  10. #30
    Emperor's Hand saddestmoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oddball_Fett View Post
    That is vandalism by definition. Whether or not it's an acceptable mode of expression depends on a person's subjective point of view. That's the whole point. Most against the Empire would say it's fine. Most for the Empire would say it isn't. As graffiti in this context is ultimately political speech. Same thing happened in ancient Rome when the peasants were unhappy with their Ceasar. But if they got caught writing it they were in trouble.

    My concerns about the character aside, I personally think this portrayal is appropriate in this context - the rebels against the Empire. It's realistic in that sense and probably the kind of thing that would happen. Though I can't deny the obvious urban hip-hop influence of the image for the sake of coolness factor and appealing to modern kids. At that point graffiti goes back to its curious nature - it is both art *and* vandalism at the same time, depending on one's point of view. If in areas where it's allowed it's just art. If not, it's just vandalism. But if it represents protest, it can be both at once.

    I agree with your points. And they are some of the reasons why I'm getting excited / intrigued about the direction this show is going in...

    To quote from another franchise: 'Risk is part of the game if you want to sit in that chair.'

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