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SonofaSith
09-22-2004, 09:06 PM
I have not sat down to watch ROTJ yet, but the changes in the first two movies have been alright with me, eventhough there has been more done than I thought there would be. I don't think it has been anything that dramatic thus far. The increase and change in dialogue with Vader and the Emperor in ESB was the biggest one, but it seems to fit with the movie just fine. The sound and picture quality are very nice compared to the Special Edition VCD's I have been watching for the last few years...
I was just wondering if any of you are peaved off at the changes?

Winsto
09-25-2004, 04:36 AM
There were two moments that really bothered me. For the lack of change.

ANH- They still showed Han stepping on Jabba's tail. That doesn't make sense, Jabba would have ordered Han killed instantly for disrespecting him in front of all his henchmen. They should have digitally made Han walk "in front" of Jabba. They are digital magicians at ILM, I think they could have made it possible( digital body double) if Lucas wanted it. Dumb!

ANH- If you follow the dogfight between the Falcon and the Ties after the Death Star escape, you'll notice at one instance where a Tie (boardered by a light square) roars over the Falcon. This was a easy digital fix but was missed. Sloppy!

Flembar
09-25-2004, 04:58 PM
ive only gotten as far as the big documentary on the bonus disc

loved it... though there were a few moments that were a little overly self-serving:

"Alan Ladd recoginized TALENT and invested in ME!"

..."and in the process Lucas changed filmmaking FOR THE BETTER!"

small complaints indeed.... especially given quite a bit of open--maybe not criticism--but "ribbing" of Lucas' directorial limitations with actors

it was indeed an awesome documentary

oh yeah...seeing the ORIGINAL scrawl again without Episode anything was most cool indeed... Im sure the Phantom Editors will have a field day with that one

I am however DREADING the near silencing of the trumpet fanfare intro to the Death Star battle... I suspect this was NOT an artistic choice--please God, let it be a mistake to be corrected in the Ultimate Editions!! (Im still impatiently awaiting out for the ultimate, definitive, comprehensive set in probably 5 or 6 years with ALL the TV docs, ALL the Editions of the movies, and even the Holiday Special!!! here's hoping!)

-Rash-

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Flembar
09-25-2004, 10:28 PM
OK... I just finished watching Ep4:ANH

and I am frankly very surprised by my reaction

I am SHOCKED at the jawdroppingly HORRIBLE job they did with this movie

I truly did not expect to hate the changes this much but it is SHOCKING how much they changed and how badly they did with the changes

now they didnt re-edit or anything... its still basically the same movie.... and yeah.... Jabba is re-done since the 1997 SE and looks better (but remains a surprisingly FAKE-looking special effect...there is missing a lot of subtlety of light on the CGI model that ILM these days normally achieves although it still seems missing from this Jabba)....and the Greedo scene is certainly improved from 1997 but still pales next to the original version

these are not the changes that upset me... what did?

First... the audio has been entirely re-mixed BADLY; and SECOND... there is MASSIVE color correction throughout the whole movie that--for die hard fans--leaps out and is wrenchingly distracting. But the thing with each of these problems is how BAD CHOICES combined with AMATEURISH EXECUTION to make the problems doubly bad.

we've probably all read about the backwards audio-channels on the score and Lucsfilm's ridiculous assertion that this flip-flop was done "for artistic reasons..."

...this change (I think mistake) is unforgiveable given the historical nature of this score...

...but this is also a subtle mistake.... for a GLARING mistake, well, the opening music to the Death Star battle is SUCH a F1_1CK-UP that I was shattered.... as youve probably read, the trumpet fanfare re-phrasing of the Jedi theme has been all but drowned out by a needless remix that plays up the sound effects and plays down the music. It LITERALLY is ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO HEAR!!! Within the context of the movie, the way that particular piece of music--as originally mixed in 1977--sets the emotional stage for the climax is CRUCIAL... it is a BEAUTIFUL, FRIGHTENING, INTENSE, STIRRING piece of music... arguably the single most important piece of music in the WHOLE MOVIE... and now it is ALL BUT GONE!!!!!! What the h3ll were they thinking? And dont give me any crap about how this was an artistic "choice...." because here's the irony.... in the big documentary on the bonus disc, when they get to the point where they start talking about John William's score.... THEY USE THIS VERY PIECE OF MUSIC in this VERY SCENE with the CORRECT ORIGINAL MIX to show how the SCORE TRANSFORMED THE MOVIE from a disaster to something really really special.... I mean, think about it: there are TWO DIFFERENT VERSIONS of this scene and ths music within this the "ultimate" SW DVD.... but the version used within the actual movie it is ALL MESSED UP?!?!?! This to my mind is clealy a f1_1ck-up but Im at a loss as to how this could have slipped past ole George and his crew. Incredibly amateurish work for this to have happened.

There are plenty of other small but unnerving sound remix issues throughout the movie but they are too numerous and each in and of itself too minor to list. Dont worry though--youll hear them

But the other thing that just lept out a tme and drove me NUTS was the rampant and terrible color correction throughout the whole movie.

Youll notice it almost from the beginning during the Tantive 4 battle... uber-intense red (pink?!) laser flashes and glows that are unnatural and glarring.... threepio and R2 both look, frankly, weird, as their colors have apparently been super-saturated to sort of "pop" but the real effect is an unnatural appearance... R2 in particular looks weird throughout much of the movie with his blue just seeming to be TOO blue... lost is the subtlety of light and shade... and this goes on throughout the movie....

strangley enough, many shots are clearly not color corrected from previous versions and still retain a remarkably beautiful subtly in their lighting. But there is distracting color correction ALL OVER this movie. How about the famous sunset scene--RUINED... the lower sun looks bizarre! The explosions during the death star battle have had the oranges and hot colors dialed up so much they now look incredibly fake (which is saying something because many of those explosons (even from the 1997 SE version) still were fakey--albeit in an endearing cheesy sort of way).

Its a digital photographic cluster-f1_1ck.

Some poeple make a big deal out of digital photography because it has so many lines of resolution, many more so than 35mm film--but I still far prefer film over digital for a simple reason--sensitivity to light. Digital just cannot yet approach the nuance of film when it comes to capturing subtle shades of light and color... and these digital color corrections essentially strip away the movie of this subtlety.. colors are SO INTENSE at times that the movie almost looks like a B&W movie that has been digitally recolored--if you know what I mean: ie fakey--not right.

I realize much effort went into digitally removing dirt from the print--and I dont know if such a process requires extensive color correction to basically fill in information that was removed with the dirt--but I highly suspect that much of this color correction was intentional--albeit a disaster in execution. How about Luke training with the light saber on the Millenium Falcon?! When he first turns it on it is GREEN!!!! This is an unforgiveable error and in and of itself, I think, demands a new DVD. But it makes you wonder, have the people who are doing this work even seen these movies? Anyone on this board, h3ll, most people in the gnereal public, would know in a heartbeat that the original Skywalker saber is BLUE and Luke doesnt go green until ROTJ--how could the color correctors not know this?!?!?!? Didnt they test screen their work for anyone at Lucasflm?!?!?!

Im aghast. Just shocked.

You know, we've waited SO LONG for these DVDs with the delay "justified" by Lucas' insistence he wanted to do something special.... but THIS is what he gives us?!!?!?!

I have not yet seen the DVDs of Empire or Return, but I am in a way devastated by this version of EP4. Harry Knowles said Lucas is grinding his diamonds into dust. I have to agree.

Horrible "artistic" choices.... horrible execution of the changes.... it is mess.

I will say that everyting from the 1997 version that Lucas cleaned up is improved... but everyone of the NEW changes is a DISASTER. Can I actually prefer the 1997 SE ove this?! I think maybe I do.

But having said that, what this DVD proves more than ever is the MASTERY of the 1977 original. In fact, Ive held off purchasing a DVD bootleg mastered off the asian laser discs... but now I FIRMLY intend to buy the original on DVD. If Lucas wont give me my favorite movie... well, I d@mn well am going to get it on my own (there.... I said it.... bring on the lawyers. I dare you).

having said that, though, I do still believe that someday lucas really will put the original on DVD--all his protestations to the contrary notwithstanding.... hopefully in some sort of set like the amazing boxed-set of Alien movies that includes every version of everyone of the Alien films... star wars is SO historic it deserves nothing less...

and also, given the f1_1ck-ups with this DVD, I am THOROUGHLY convinced lucas will try yet again to get this movie "right." If only to fix the green saber and the fanfare intro to the death star battle.. even he cant be happy with those changes--h3ll, he back-tracked on Luke's scream from the 1997 ESB--right?

so....in short... the super special set Lucas wanted to put out amounted to f1_1cked-up transfers... f1_1cked-up changes, ZERO deleted scenes... and one, admittedly, wonderful documentary

all in all... an EPIC let-down... but then, that's pretty much par for the course from ole george for about the past 20 or so years.

when we were kids George made three PERFECT movies all in a row (SW, ESB, and RAIDERS--not ROTJ)... but since that amazing cinematic hat-trick, he's just never been able to do it again

I guess we all keep hoping he will... and I will keep hoping... but Im not holding my breath in the process

May the 1977 original be with you.

-Rash Flembar-

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CorranHorn
09-26-2004, 12:59 AM
WOW, that's all I can say about your review Flembar. It sounds like you know a thing or two about cinematography and if the DVD's have this poor of an audio-visual enviroment to them, then I am now more than ever justified in not having bought the DVD's. This is why bring the OT as it was seen originally in theaters to DVD is so important. It gives the viewers the experience they originally ad 27 years ago. Heightened colors, softened music, fancy FX, will not make the experience the same. It's sad to know that for many young children this DVD set will be their first experience with the Original Trilogy. http://threads.rebelscum.com/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Mr__Ackbar
09-27-2004, 02:50 PM
Great review Flembar.

r2d2tjk
10-20-2004, 11:08 AM
Has anybody accessed the exclusive DVD-Rom content? If so, how did you do it? On the bonus disc, I just get a page which has Leia and R2 with no instructions as to how to get to the exclusive content page. http://threads.rebelscum.com/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Flembar
05-03-2006, 08:53 PM
The ORIGINAL versions FINALLY coming on DVD!!!!!!!!! (http://starwars.com/episode-iv/release/video/news20060503.html)

Hallelujah!!!

That's all I can say. I can even forgive George his previous DVD screw ups given that this is at least avaible on DVD.

I suppose we all knew it was coming sooner or later--but rock and roll!!!!

-Rash-

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Seraphim
05-03-2006, 11:46 PM
I am glad that the original versions are being released. I am perplexed why people want the Holiday Special on DVD. It is painful to sit through. ;_; Watching it once was more than enough. I think Lucas absolutely hates it. I seem to recall saying he would like to bguy every bootleg copy up and smash em with a hammer. He doesn't hate the OT, as much as feels he wasn't able to do all he wanted, so I can see him allowing the unaltered OT. But, God, I hope he doesn't release the Holiday Special. http://threads.rebelscum.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Commander_Dan
05-04-2006, 11:32 AM
Finally is right, That whole jabba thing just made me hate the special edition & the new copies. In ROTJ the Jabbas palace thing sucks with the new band creatures. Boy that special edition really sucks bad.

MARTI
05-11-2006, 08:55 PM
I am very excited that these are finally coming to DVD!!! I have them on laserdisc and VHS and wanted them for so long on DVD. The circle is now complete!! http://threads.rebelscum.com/images/graemlins/cool.gif http://threads.rebelscum.com/images/graemlins/smile.gif

ieyasu00
05-12-2006, 01:36 AM
I know that there are some serious Star Wars fans, but like
Ron Santo would say, "OH MAN!"
I'm not trying to start any trouble, but you have to remember,
they're just movies.............
O.K. i will admit, if Akira Kurosawa had ever changed
the Seven Samurai while he was alive, i would have
questioned it too! http://threads.rebelscum.com/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

posterboykelly
05-12-2006, 07:40 AM
I am glad that the original versions are being released. I am perplexed why people want the Holiday Special on DVD. It is painful to sit through. ;_; Watching it once was more than enough. I think Lucas absolutely hates it. I seem to recall saying he would like to bguy every bootleg copy up and smash em with a hammer. He doesn't hate the OT, as much as feels he wasn't able to do all he wanted, so I can see him allowing the unaltered OT. But, God, I hope he doesn't release the Holiday Special. http://threads.rebelscum.com/images/graemlins/crazy.gif



NO WAY it's hilarious (holiday special) COME ON! Where's the sense of kitch? B. Arthur? I laughed myself retarted (clearly since I want this on DVD) it would be all worth it to get the animated short though, it was so 70's. Like Heavy Metal! I pray everynight to any god who will listen to get the Holiday Special on DVD. If my wife is buggin' me, BANG I slam on the Holiday Special (which put her to sleep). I need something to go along with my copy of 'Christmas in the Stars" CD! Plus it's out first view of Kashyyyk! 15 Min. of Wookies talking with NO subtitles?!?!?! I don't do drugs, but after watching that I feel like I have shot heroine up my @#$%^.