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Bounty_Hunter_XP
06-08-2002, 12:55 AM
I just wanted to make this point clearly where everybody could see it and discuss it.

I have a much better solution to the Jorg Sacul debacle than what the absent-minded Convention geniuses came up with in Indianapolis.

FIRST, tell Hasbro to provide at least one item for every person expected in attendance at the Convention. For a rough number, bring as many items as there are badges made. ("Extras" are dealt with later.)

SECOND, have a few lanes labeled "Buying of Exclusives Only." That way people looking for other stuff don't have to wait in those long lines. Plus, it will speed up the "exclusives" lines considerably.

THIRD, clearly limit the Convention Exclusive(s) to ONE (of each item) PER PERSON.

FOURTH, include a little box on the attendee BADGE that has a circle inside with the words "Convention Exclusive" underneath. If there is more than one such exclusive, then have a box for EACH. (Preferably, each will be labeled what they're for, but that's not always possible or practical.)

FIFTH, this circle is to be PUNCHED by the cashier when an exclusive item is purchased. (It's not difficult to find unique hole-punch shapes if so desired--one shape for each exclusive.)

SIXTH, allow only ONE attendee BADGE to be presented by each person during each purchase.

SEVENTH, "leftovers" will also be limited to 2 (or 1 or 3) per purchase. That's so they aren't all bought up by the same person. (Note: I realize this creates a loophole where Sunday people get a shot at extras that Friday/Saturday people don't. But the Convention has to be able to sell all the figures at some point, and it's far better to put this at the end than to risk exhausting supplies early.)

EIGHTH, when the "leftovers" (if any) are available later on Sunday, there will be a PRIVILEGED lane particularly for purchases made with an UNPUNCHED badge. That way they don't have to stand in line behind people buying doubles. This line will exist until the last hour or 30 minutes of the con. (At some point the flood gates have to be opened.)

NINTH, (this might be controversial) allow attendees to PRE-PAY for their exclusive (again, one per badge) when they pre-pay for their badges. This might take a little paperwork, but it's certainly do-able. One line could be designated as a "Pre-Pays Only" where pre-paids can be picked up (to lighten the other lines). This line will be a bit longer and move a bit slower, but the purchase is GUARANTEED, and it's a bonus for registering early. (This encourages pre-payment of entrance fees and physical attendance at the show, while giving con officials a more reliable estimate of exclusives needed.)

There. That makes the whole thing as FAIR as possible. If somebody wants TWO, they either have to wait until later Sunday, or they can trade somebody out of their unpunched badge and get in the back of the line.

The above method will go a long way to making sure everybody gets an equal chance, no matter what time of day they arrive (unless they arrive late on Sunday).

I'd be glad to send this idea to the Convention people if I knew where to send it. If anybody knows, post the address and I'll send it.

[ 06-08-2002, 01:13 AM: Message edited by: fumetti ]

r2d2tjk
07-06-2002, 11:41 AM
I went to WizardWorld outside Chicago yesterday about an hour after opening. I saw two Jorg Saculs, one for $125 at Brians Toys and one for $80 at another vender whose name I forgot. A little too rich for my blood. As I wasn't able to make it to Celebration II, I got a program for $15 at White Owl Collectibles. In passing I asked if he had any Jorg, he indicated he had gotten 40 at Celebration II, but had sold them all in Texas at a previous show. He gave me a couple of promos for free though. He seemed like a nice guy, but his story about Jorg just demonstrates what a fiasco that exclusive has become. I don't blame the dealers necessarily, it seems like the distribution was the problem. Oh well.

images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Bounty_Hunter_XP
07-06-2002, 07:57 PM
Yeah, the whole thing has become one big, unpleasant joke.

BigDumbWookiee
07-06-2002, 09:50 PM
Or just do away with a convention exclusive all together images/icons/wink.gif

Seriously though, I went to C2 to have fun and enjoy all of the events, as well as a lot of other people. Unfortunately, a lot of people came souley for the exclusive figure, which ultimately lead to big disapointment, overcrowding, and numerous other problems.

I went to C2 with both of my parents. We each bought our 2 each. My mom, not knowing of the limit bought two more (she didnt even KNOW about the limit, thats how much the enforced it). Feeling guilty for getting more than my fair share, I gave the extra two away at the end of C2, both to a couple of uber-disapointed kids, who didn't get theirs. The other four, I sold at cost, to members of the BHC who couldn't make it to C2. I didn't make a dime off of them, and may have actually even lost a couple buckson shipping, but oh well. I hope I did my part to stick it to the scalpers and dealers.

As for your idea, you can probably send it to the Star Wars fanclub, or to Wizards of the Coast.

Wizards of the Coast (http://www.wizards.com)

I do like your idea, but I'd like to see a 2 per person limit. They could easily make more than enough to go around.

I'd also prefer to see a ticket included with your badge, instead of having a hole punched or marked. A whole lot of people collect badges, and punching a hole is unnecessary when you could just include a voucher. Lose the voucher? Tough luck. Make as many vouchers as there are badges, and make twice as many figures (2 figs per voucher). This would allow people to trade or sell their vouchers, and the supply couldn't be ran out.

[ 07-06-2002, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: BigDumbWookiee ]

GNT
07-07-2002, 12:54 AM
People could always photocopy and reprint vouchers to look like original versions. The hole punch thing is excellent "if you want the figure your getting a hole through your ticket,if you don't want a hole through the ticket your not getting the exclusive" simple images/icons/smile.gif

camnron
07-07-2002, 02:38 AM
I WAS AT WIZARD WORLD AND I SAW A JORG FOR 55

I ALSO SAW A BLOODY STUMP LUKE FOR 7

the guy didnt know it was bloody stump and another guy in front of me told him that it was bloody and i watched in horror as he boosted the price 28 right as i was gonna buy it

also read my wizard world thread in the prequals section

BigDumbWookiee
07-07-2002, 10:17 AM
Originally posted by Bounty Hunter GNT:
People could always photocopy and reprint vouchers to look like original versions. The hole punch thing is excellent "if you want the figure your getting a hole through your ticket,if you don't want a hole through the ticket your not getting the exclusive" simple images/icons/smile.gif <font size="2" face="arial">You could always make them like the 25th Anniversary Concert ticket or something, slap a hologram on there, then you couldn't copy them.

Bounty_Hunter_XP
07-07-2002, 03:47 PM
If there were enough exclusives available for all attendees to get one, then I wouldn't care how many each person ultimately bought.

Beedo
07-07-2002, 05:34 PM
Yeah. Do away with convention exclusives, the most unfair, cynical, and disloyal thing a company or consortium can do to its patrons.

Make all "exclusives" available through the various Fan Clubs and international Hasbro websites (so people outside the USA get a chance at these items).

Produce lots of them, enough to staisfy all collectors' demands. In other words, make an initial batch, then when those stocks are near-depleted, take orders for more, then fill those orders.

That way, everyone on the planet who wants one (or more) has a chance at owning the piece, and scalpers who bought a lot will be stuck with them, because the people who want them will already have them. Also, by actually supplying actual demand, Hasbro & Co. can continue to make money far beyond that which is possible from a "limited release" item.

Or, they could produce non-C2 Jorg Saculs in little white mailer boxes and have us send in Jedi Master points and shipping coverage.

Simple and effective. images/icons/grin.gif

GNT
07-07-2002, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by BigDumbWookiee:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="arial">Originally posted by Bounty Hunter GNT:
People could always photocopy and reprint vouchers to look like original versions. The hole punch thing is excellent "if you want the figure your getting a hole through your ticket,if you don't want a hole through the ticket your not getting the exclusive" simple images/icons/smile.gif <font size="2" face="arial">You could always make them like the 25th Anniversary Concert ticket or something, slap a hologram on there, then you couldn't copy them.</font>[/QUOTE]<font size="2" face="arial">If the hologram is just stuck on people could just peel them off but if they were like inserted into the card(sort of like sports cards) it'll probably work images/icons/smile.gif

Bounty_Hunter_XP
07-08-2002, 02:00 AM
As for handling convention exclusives, the G.I.Joe convention people offer the best deal. You can get the exclusive even if you don't attend, because you can pay for the exclusive when you send in payment for entrance passes. If you don't wish to attend, they'll simply mail the item to you.

This works out better because it's a better system of fair distribution (it's the best guarantee for ticket buyers to get the exclusive), plus non-attendees can get them without "cheating the system". Also, by more securely linking the attendence fee with the exclusive, the convention earns more money (encouraging more conventions and better attractions).

You'd think since both G.I.Joe and Star Wars are made by Hasbro that this system would already be in place.

Bounty_Hunter_XP
07-08-2002, 10:53 AM
Just read the "Chatting with Andy" interview here on Rebelscum at it appears the Hasbro folks are just as concerned about the Jorg Sacul problems as we are. At the Wizard convention, the con exclusive is a muppet toy which requires a PUNCH (of the ID card? I forget) to be purchased. So lets hope C3 isn't a repeat of C2.

Glad to hear Andy's remarks about scalpers.

07-08-2002, 04:39 PM
I find it more than unbelievable that Hasbro would think to themselves that 25,000 George Lucas figures would be enough. This also applies to the Toyfare Vader of which only 5000 pieces were made. They make almost 300,000 each of the basic Star Wars figures that are sent to the Regular stores alone. Did they doubt that all the other collectors in the world would not want one besides all the attendees that didn't get one as well?

And the answers they gave at the Question and answers session as usual make no since whatsoever in the real world.

There RECENT comments were no more George Lucas figures will or can be made because they stated they would only be available at the convention.
If that's the case why are they in the process of making more to have them available to overseas Star Wars fans as promotional items in the near future? They ignore the Huge Fan Base that made them what they are here in the USA!? That should make many collectors Happy! (The point of this is they are making more after they said they woudn't be making more!)

The also stated the Toyfare Vader was never really meant to be sold to the public in anyway. What do they think the 300,000 plus Star Wars collectors out there that they market the toys to wouldn't want one?! I seriously doubt that! And by the way Hasbro, why is the Vader available at some overseas Toys R us stores. ( At a high price I might add of $44.99! ) Strange for a toy not meant to be sold to the public! (Hasbro again not exactly speaking the truth!)

I think it's a matter of there marketing plan plain and simple. They make these short run items to keep you searching and hunting which will keep you in the stores/Internet looking for New Star Wars Product with at the same time keeping Star wars on your mind 24-7.
Even the recent case assortments with only one Chewbacca and one Han in a box. Sure like I guess there's no fans of Chewbacca or Han around!
I also believe the Bloody Luke was done on purpose by Hasbro. They say they don't enjoy the secondary market at all but they know when someone buys a $5.00 figure from them and sells it for $50.00 3 days later because it's a variant it sure is a shot in the arm for there product.

The solution for the EP2 Convention I think would
have been to have a put a common figure like a POTF stormtrooper in a special edition package for the convention.Like what was done on the theater edition Jedi Luke. Sure many folks would still want one but a package variation is one thing over a completely different figure being made like the Lucas figure which as I stated every one who collects Star Wars of course would want one!

I hope everone who wants a Lucas figure and Toyfare Vader gets one eventually.I got both of mine from some nice collectors on these boards.

Not that it will make you feel any better about not having these 2 figures but I can tell you this, I opened both up and neither one of them are anything that great.
Good Luck my fellow Collectors and Happpy Hunting

[ 07-09-2002, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: DarthMickeyMoose ]

bobafett14
07-08-2002, 05:04 PM
I kinda liked the exclusiveness of the figure. Hey it was advertised, we all new in advance how scarce this fig could be(and was) we all had a chance to buy a plane ticket(or whatever) get to Indy,we all had a chance to pay to get into the convention, we all had a chance to wait in line(3 days to boot!), we all still have a chance to buy one online(as high as they may be), we all have a chance to trade for one.

IT seems so typical today if we don't get what we want, then we all just whine louder and louder!

I wanted a Toyfare Vader, still do. I had every chance to get one, could've flown to get one, could've ordered one at the fan club, could still spend a few hundred $$$, but I'm not, and you know what?...................I sure as HE11 ain't gonna cry about it.

Also, if EVERYTHING ever made was a pegwarmer(or at least available to everyone), think how boring this hobby might be. The exclusiveness of certain items is what keeps this hobby fun and exciting.

BigDumbWookiee
07-09-2002, 12:26 AM
Yeah, Im sure they will be allowed to overshoot estimates for C3, and overproduce the figure. Better to try and figure out a solution to get rid of excess figures, than have about half as many as you need.

And about the ticket idea: If there is a hologram on the ticket, people could peel it off, but when it is handed in, the person selling them can see plainly that it is missing, so they cant buy it. My ticket idea required that you hand in the ticket, and it is punched and thrown away by convention workers. This would prevent anyone from forging them. If someone can forge a hologram in a matter of three days, and do it for a price that would make it worth an extra figure, then they deserve it images/icons/wink.gif Ok, not really, but thats my point.

If the only way to get your two figures, was to present an official ticket with hologram, I think it would work well. I don't think you could forge something like that on such short notice, and like I said, at a cost that wouldn't be outweighed by the potential price of the figure. If you did something like a Microsoft Certificate of Authenticity where half the ticket is an elaborate hologram, I doubt it would get forged.

BigDumbWookiee
07-09-2002, 12:36 AM
You also have to consider the hole punch on the convention badge may not work.

I went for all three days, but I bought a 3 day pass, as well as three one day passes. I did this specifically because I actually assumed they'd punch cards, so combined with my parents, we could get our two each, and I'd have at least one unpunched badge set. If they punched badges, I could have got eight figures. Anyone with single one day passes could have easily bought more.

I guess however, the same could be said for any method. I could still buy multiple passes to get the tickets. But it would quell the problem. Combine 70 bucks a pop for badges, then you get your ticket, and two figures, thats 90 bucks. You just spent 45 bucks each on figures. I think this would drastically motivate people to stick to the guidlines, but obviously not everyone. Combine those factors with an overproduced figure, which Hasbro will obviously do for the next celebration, and I dont think you would run into problems.

My point is, a ticket is just as easy and fullproof as the badge method, and it allows people to keep their badges, which I know a lot of people wanted. Its logistically easy compared to other things they could do.

And, I dont know how to enforce this, but stop the leakage of extra figures to dealers. How Cloud City Collectibles got a full case still baffles and pisses me off.

07-09-2002, 01:13 AM
Bobafett14... not everyone can leave work or teach just because. Not everyone can afford to fly or drive. Yeah, I'm discouraged that people got away with getting more than the limit. Those people also knew the demand that figure would be in and now profit HUGE on eBay. It would be different if they'd sell it to fellow collectors AT COST, but no, greed kicks in! Just like the CEO's of ENRON and WORLDCOM and they will not get any reprimands. Also, the fan club sucked with the toy fair darth vader. Their servers crashed and then when they had a day to call in, I was on the phone on hold for 2 hours and when someone finally got to me, they hung up. I'm glad to read about the changes in the fan club.

[ 07-09-2002, 01:13 AM: Message edited by: Darth Music ]

GNT
07-09-2002, 03:51 AM
Originally posted by bobafett14:
I kinda liked the exclusiveness of the figure. Hey it was advertised, we all new in advance how scarce this fig could be(and was) we all had a chance to buy a plane ticket(or whatever) get to Indy,we all had a chance to pay to get into the convention, we all had a chance to wait in line(3 days to boot!), we all still have a chance to buy one online(as high as they may be), we all have a chance to trade for one.
<font size="2" face="arial">It ain't cheap to buy an airplane ticket from Sydney,Australia to Indianapolis thyen to get there and be disappointed when they say that they've sold out!

If I could have traveled acroos the world to pick up a $10 figure I would have but I couldn't.

Bounty_Hunter_XP
07-09-2002, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by bobafett14:
IT seems so typical today if we don't get what we want, then we all just whine louder and louder!<font size="2" face="arial">It's also typical today that people who "got theirs" don't give a rat's *** about the person next in line. As long as you got yours, everything HAS to be okay, right?

bobafett14
07-09-2002, 04:00 PM
He he, I knew I'd catch it on this one. Hey everyone has a right to thier opinion, I'm not coming down on anyone (I'm trying to keep this as "freindly" as I can, really) Also, I like some of the ideas on how to handle the "exclusive" figs-don't get me wrong.

I also agree with you GNT that WOULD suck coming all the way from Aust. and not getting one, but once again-the early bird catches the worm.

I agree it should have been limited/punched cards, etc., but once again, there were people traveling in from out of town, standing in line the night before just so they could get one. They made the sacrifices(don't get me wrong it was lots of fun), just like I did, spent vac. days, travel $, hotel $, ticket $, etc. to get the stupid thing, all told I spent HUNDREDS on the weekend-mostly in travel and hotel expenses. A lot of people knew in advance this thing may sell out, so I, like many others, made sure we got there extra early to snag one(or two)

A lot of folks in my collectors club grabbed an extra for those that couldn't attend(kudos to those guys) A lot of people are getting pissed when people are now trying to sell the thing for $80 on ebay. Not that it's right, but hey, they can do as they please- it's thier right.

What I hate is to hear everyone whining and crying. I mean people are down right vicious over this fig. IF an "exclusive" or "limited" comes out tommorrow, then guess what.....we all sit down and see if we are able to get it, and we'll figure out how to get it-some will get it some won't-thats just the way it is. Everything in this world has a price, if $80 is too high for you then so be it, just don't come cryin to me....I hate seeing grown men cry.(by the way I just like to collect, I don't sell on ebay just for the record)

Like I said, I didn't get the Toyfare Vader I wanted(I'm on both sides here-got he sacul, didn't get the vader), but at the same time, you won't see me cryin for it up and down the net, and I'm sure as heck aint gonna cry to everyone and put them down because they got one-good for them, I wish I was that lucky. It's out there, and if I want it bad enogh, I'll get it....period.

Stop crying........please everyone for the love of god stop crying and have some fun with the GD hobby.

07-09-2002, 05:50 PM
I didn't have time to wait 7 hours in Carrie Fishers line to get an autograph. Did I cry about it? No, I spent $50 more than what it would have cost me at the show. I have no problem paying someone $7.15 an hour while
I did not have to waste 7 hours of the con & enjoyed myself.
Jon

JohnA
07-09-2002, 06:44 PM
Originally posted by BigDumbWookiee:
How Cloud City Collectibles got a full case still baffles and pisses me off.<font size="2" face="arial">For the record Tom explains how in this thread. (http://forums.rebelscum.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004266)

John

Bounty_Hunter_XP
07-10-2002, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by bobafett14:
Stop crying........please everyone for the love of god stop crying and have some fun with the GD hobby.<font size="2" face="arial">What sucks the fun right out of this hobby is NOT that items become scarce because so many people want to HAVE them. It's because so many want to SCALP them.

I find it astonishing that you'd rather spend time trying to squelch demands for improvements to the hobby, all the while fostering a cancer that has already ruined many other hobbies.

Oh wait, I forget. You already got yours. (This argument always comes down to that, doesn't it. Those who got one, defend what happened; those who didn't, don't.)

As for the rest of us, the best we can do is make our point loud and clear that Hasbro and the SW Celebration convention managers need to do a better job than they did in Indianapolis. The march to a better tomorrow begins with the drumbeat of today. And I, for one, will continue to beat this drum.

[ 07-10-2002, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: Bounty Hunter XP-4060 ]

JosephY
07-10-2002, 11:28 PM
[/qb]<font size="2" face="arial">Oh wait, I forget. You already got yours. (This argument always comes down to that, doesn't it. Those who got one, defend what happened; those who didn't, don't.)

As for the rest of us, the best we can do is make our point loud and clear that Hasbro and the SW Celebration convention managers need to do a better job than they did in Indianapolis. The march to a better tomorrow begins with the drumbeat of today. And I, for one, will continue to beat this drum.[/QB][/QUOTE]

And I'm sure that IF you had been either up early , or were aware enough to have figured out a way at the convention to have gotten one, YOU wouldn't be making one little peep in this discussion or on this topic. I'll agree that Hasbro SHOULD make a plain white mailer boxed version and offer it as a mailaway, to help placate demand for the figure itself(I could use a loose one...lol). I wholeheartedly dissagree with any stance that would have the figure offered in the same packaging as it was available at the convention in. It was meant as a convention exclusive and should be kept as one (at least as far as the packaging format is concerned). The convention was more than 2 months ago, get over it, and either enjoy the hobby w/o a Sacul, or sell all your POTF2/POTJ/EP1 stuff for the pennies on the dollar that it'll fetch on Ebay and get on with your life.

Cheers
Joseph

Sems_Fir
07-11-2002, 06:55 AM
The topic starter of this thread is none other than Fumetti who changed his user id name. If you want to read another thread of his on another interesting topic he started called "I want more "classics" releases" go here: http://forums.rebelscum.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000318. This thread is located in the CcAndy@Hasbro section of these forums. In that particluar thread he would like to see the vintage figures remade. Why? He lists several reasons as to why he would like Hasbro to reissue the vintage figures, but there was one line he typed that seemed to be along the same reason as to why he wants the C2 exclusive figure mass produced.

Bounty Hunter XP-4060 wrote:
"My desire for redos of vintage is about overall aesthetic. There's something wonderful about those vintage figures that makes me want to buy more of them but NOT have to pay $15 -200 for each of them in new condition".

Once again he mentions not wanting to pay what he considers high dollars to obtain figures for his collection. I agree that the way the exclusive figure was distributed at the convention was not done correctly. I'm not disagreeing with his point. I do disagree with his point on reissuing figures just because he doesn't want to pay for them whether it be an exclusive figure, or a vintage figure. Collecting would not be as interesting if every action figure was reissued at cheap prices. Like other collecting hobbies Star Wars collecting is set on different dollar levels, from today's mass produced retail market releases, all the way up through prototypes, as well as props.
There was one other line that he wrote in that thread:
Bounty Hunter XP-4060 wrote:
"If you don't want it, don't buy it. Simple as that".
Again, I don't disagree with this statement. However, If you do want it, buy it. Simple as that".

Cheers to you Joseph! 8&gt;)

Robert
Black S.U.N.

Bounty_Hunter_XP
07-11-2002, 10:11 AM
ITEM ONE:
I've changed my forum name several times. I've yet to find one that sounds "Star Wars" enough to suit me so I keep tinkering with it. And I'll be changing it again, too. If you care that much who I am, make a note of my Forum Member Number (4060) and post it on your monitor. The name may change, but the number never does.

It's a shame what happened in the "other" thread. Some of you people mistook another poster for me and I was going to clear that up but the moderator shut it down first.

ITEM TWO:
It's a serious strain of logic to equate my Classics posting to this topic. I want to buy more NEWLY MADE vintage figures, exactly as was sold in Kenner's TRU Classic 4 pack in 1995 (or 96). Where is the evil in that? How can you POSSIBLY construe that as anything bad? To buy a genuine vintage figure such as an original Luke in brand new condition would cost over $50 loose. That's an expensive, hard-to-replacable collectible--not a common toy that can be thrown around. I'd think YOU PEOPLE would understand this most of all. I guess I'm guilty of overestimating the reasonableness of some of you.

Considering this is EXACTLY what Kenner/Hasbro has done with the VEHICLES (making new items from vintage molds), it's a logical step to ask "how about doing the same thing with the figures?" And again, it's not as if my little thread topic is asking for anything that Kenner/Hasbro hasn't ALREADY done. I was just seeing if other Star Wars fans were interested in more Classics, too. (Gee, imagine that, somebody starting a thread asking for new toys!)

ITEM THREE:
As for cost of items, I have said my peace on that. (If Heckle and Jeckle come onto this thread continuing the arguments from other threads, I'll just ignore them as I have been ignoring them.)

I was willing to pay Hasbro's asking price for Jorg Sacul ($10) and I've already pre-ordered the Imperial Shuttle from FAO Schwartz. Do I think $125 is high for that item, absolutely. But I'm willing to pay it so long as the money stays in the "proper" chain (retailer-manufacturer). If this item were offered for, say, $75 and I had to pay $125 to a scalper for it--there is absolutely NO WAY I'd pay it.

That is as crystal clear as I can make it.

I do not consider giving scalpers a cut of the pie as an acceptable part of the money chain.

Some of you want to spin this as me not willing to pay a "fair price" for anything. That's a LIE, fabricated to obfuscate the issue of scalpers hoarding premium items to sell at ridiculous prices/profits.

ITEM FOUR:
The assertion that I would not complain if I had gotten a Jorg Sacul for myself is another lie, born out of complete ignorance of knowing anything about me. Everything I have ever said, and ever posted, has been in support of making EVERY SINGLE ITEM available to anybody and everybody who wants one. If any other posters try to characterize me otherwise, they are lying through their teeth.

I have spoken out against ANY and EVERY distribution method or process which doesn't give every Star Wars fan a reasonable chance at getting an item. (I wrote Kenner two letters and spoke with store managers about the unevenness of distribution since the line's return in 1995.) Short-packing bugs the living hell out of me when it involves a popular figure (such as Dooku). Sure, shortpacking is necessary for obscure (R2-Q5) or previously low-selling figures (Lando) since it's an attempt to keep items from lagging on the pegs too long. But there's something wrong with the scarcity of Saga Dookus and Yodas given their prominence in the movie. Every kid I know who likes Star Wars wants both figures and can find neither--left to choose between Taun We and Spider-man. (So far, they've chosen Spider-man. And I think that's just bad, bad, bad for the franchise.)

Why didn't I post here about the Toy Fair Vader? That's easy, I wasn't a member of rebelscum at the time (for some of you, this little factoid doesn't matter). Also, I didn't go to Toy Fair so I don't know anything about how that was handled.

But I have spoken out against all exclusives, not just convention exclusives. If Hasbro feels store exclusives are necessary, then part of those deals should include internet or phone orders from that store chain (just as FAO is doing with the Shuttle). That way you don't have geographic discrimination.

But all this is being said for deaf ears. As seen in other threads, no amount of reason or explanation can stem the tide of vitriol that will come my way. Protecting the scalper parasite is paramount for some people.

JosephY
07-11-2002, 10:12 AM
I didn't even realise it was FUmetti when I responded, that's too funny. 2 months + later and he's still complaining about it.... would SOMEONE puuhleease send him a Sacul so he'll shut the hell up.

Cheers
Joseph

JosephY
07-11-2002, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by Bounty Hunter XP-4060:


ITEM TWO:
It's a serious strain of logic to equate my Classics posting to this topic. I want to buy more NEWLY MADE vintage figures, exactly as was sold in Kenner's TRU Classic 4 pack in 1995 (or 96). Where is the evil in that? How can you POSSIBLY construe that as anything bad? To buy a genuine vintage figure such as an original Luke in brand new condition would cost over $50 loose. That's an expensive, hard-to-replacable collectible--not a common toy that can be thrown around.

Considering this is EXACTLY what Kenner/Hasbro has done with the VEHICLES (making new items from vintage molds), it's a logical step to ask "how about doing the same thing with the figures?" And again, it's not as if my little thread topic is asking for anything that Kenner/Hasbro hasn't ALREADY done. I was just seeing if other Star Wars fans were interested in more Classics, too. (Gee, imagine that, somebody starting a thread asking for new toys!)

ITEM THREE:
As for cost of items, I have said my peace on that. (If Heckle and Jeckle come onto this thread continuing the arguments from other threads, I'll just ignore them as I have been ignoring them.

Some of you want to spin this as me not willing to pay a "fair price" for anything. That's a LIE, fabricated to obfuscate the issue of scalpers hoarding premium items to sell at ridiculous prices/profits.

ITEM FOUR:
The assertion that I would not complain if I had gotten a Jorg Sacul for myself is another lie, born out of complete ignorance of knowing anything about me. Everything I have ever said, and ever posted, has been in support of making EVERY SINGLE ITEM available to anybody and everybody who wants one. If any other posters try to characterize me otherwise, they are lying through their teeth.

I have spoken out against ANY and EVERY distribution method or process which doesn't give every Star Wars fan a reasonable chance at getting an item. (I wrote Kenner two letters and spoke with store managers about the unevenness of distribution since the line's return in 1995.) Short-packing bugs the living hell out of me when it involves a popular figure.

<font size="2" face="arial">First of all I'm not here to flame you, just to respond to your post...read, respond...relax.

Well, it's easy for me to construe someone wanting to make classic reissues as being a bad thing. Do you know what that would do to the loose vintage market????? It would utterly decimate it. While I have NO stake whatsoever in that market, my loose vintage set is complete apart from a few overlooked variations.I still would gringe to see ANY vintage styled REissues.There would be the flood of scam artists attempting to sell them as original, it would be bad for the hobby. IF you want a loose orig Luke, it's FAR from a $50 figure. They can easilly be had on any given day on Ebay for under $20. If you want a loose vintage Luke,save for it.

Now IF Hasbro wanted to go back and make characters that HADN'T been released in the vintage line in vintage style figures (Tarkin, RFT, Slave Leia, etc) I'd be 1000% behind that decision. The bulky steriodal looking POTF2 figs I have loose in my display case just don't look right.

I would never willingly accept any decission that would only benefit those that don't want to have to hunt, search or save for anything, they just want their perfect complete collection handed to them on a silver platter. What's the fun of collecting if it isn't the hunt,struggle,and ultimate aquisition of that one illusive piece. I personally would find the hobby stagnate and borring if every piece I wanted were "easilly" available to me. and not easilly available doesn't always mean expensive. I've gotten items that I'd been searching literally for years for for under $50 on a consistant basis as of late.

I REALLY think there needs to be a new definition of a collector. Those that don't collect, meaning those that just go to the store and buy store stocked new items are not collectors.They are buyers, consumers, NOT collectors. It seems that every time that they might have to put some effort into the hobby , they choose to complain about having to put that effort in instead of figuring out a way to get what they are complaining about. I assure you that taking the time and effort to figure out how to get a good set of loose vintage figures without going broke would be less time and effort than complaining that Hasbro should just reissue the entire vintage line so you don't have to do anything apart from going to walmart in order to complete your collection.

Joseph Y

Sems_Fir
07-11-2002, 01:02 PM
ITEM ONE:
I was only informing Joe that you changed your user id from fumetti to what it is now, that's all.
ITEM TWO:
In reference to the thread you started in regards to the reissue of the vintage figures I'm stating that you appear to want to purchase everything (the exclusive C2 figure which is the topic of discussion here as well as the vintage figures you make reference to in another thread you started) for a far cheaper price than the current market value. I think that's a great idea as who wouldn't want something for as cheap as possible. However, what fun would a collecting hobby be if everything was handed over for next to nothing in price? If exclusives, and action figures from the past were handed over to collectors on a silver platter the collecting market would decrease greatly, and the fun in obtaining the harder to find pieces would also diminish greatly. I agree with you completely as to wanting to buy items for as cheap as possible, but you also have to realize that the current demand and market value for the C2 exclusive figure is more than the $10 you are currently willing to pay. As I've stated before either purchase the figure now to add one to your collection or wait for the market value to go down on the figure. Again, I reference the Theatre edition Luke. What was once a $125 +/- figure when it first hit the secondary market is now only worth about $50 - $70 due to time passing and the demand of the figure. Sometime in this hobby patience is needed to obtain the piece you would like to add to your personal collection.
ITEM THREE:
Thanks for the Heckle and Jeckle reference, I had a good laugh on that one! 8&gt;)
ITEM FOUR:
I read your views on the hard to find figures from a previous thread so I won't reply to it here, For reference other readers can just go over to the "Dealers did not have first dibbs" thread to read all about it and my response to it.

Why do you get so upset when someone offers a response to a thread you started? Is it due to what you read is not what you wanted in reply? Joe is right and relax and take in what others have to say. Other collectors knowledge and help in the hobby go a long way to better the collecting experience. Perhaps another reader of the thread will see this and answer your request and sell you a C2 exclusive figure for what you are willing to pay for it. I've stated to you to post a trade ad in the forums. Have you tried that yet?

Robert
Black S.U.N.

Bounty_Hunter_XP
07-11-2002, 02:39 PM
I got pretty hot about the Jorg Sacul thing early on. I'm not hot about it anymore.

I think everything--pro and con--has been said on the matter. The lines have been drawn, the people have chosen sides. More discussion on the past won't get us anywhere (that's why I left the other thread).

This thread is about the future. It's about what methods the convention managers can take to better assure that convention exclusives are going to the people they are ostensibly intended for. I was looking for suggestions from other fans to see if we could collectively find the best, or best possible, system. This is not a "gripe" thread.

====
As for JYX1138's concerns over new Classic reissues hurting the vintage market, I did give that a lot of thought. Using other hobbies as reference, I simply don't agree that it's certain that reissuing vintage-mold figures would do much damage to the vintage market.

Reprints haven't hurt the Golden Age or Silver Age comic book markets. If anything, reprints generated more--not less--interest in those originals because newcomers had an affordable entry point.

Hasbro's remakes of vintage G.I.Joes certainly hasn't hurt the vintage market. Vintage Joe prices have gone UP in recent years, not down. Same goes for most collectibles, particularly with high-grade items.

So it's my view that reissues won't hurt the value of most of the vintage stuff. It might bring down the prices of low-condition items, but since C5 figures can often be found around $5-6, I don't think they'll be too affected.

I don't think if Hasbro released a Classic 4-pack with minty-fresh Blue Snaggletooth, Yak Face, Amanaman, and rocket-firing Boba Fett that the prices of C9 vintage versions will fall. Anybody who's willing to pay $100 or more for a little plastic figure isn't going to let a modern reissue change his/her mind. The POTF2 Yak Face and POTJ Amanaman are almost dead-on to the vintage versions and I haven't seen any outcry about prices dropping.

If this theory of "reissues will devalue vintage" were true, then we'd have already seen the devastation among vintage vehicles. This hasn't happened. And most of the new vehicles are only cosmetically different.

So, it is my opinion that reissues of vintage will--if anything--create more interest in vintage. And since vintage is of finite supply, that can only drive prices up, not down.

As for concerns over dealers passing off new as for vintage, well again I have to go to other hobbies as reference. While there are many newly made GIJoes that look identical to the vintage ones, scamming of this sort hasn't been a problem. Same with comic book reprints being sold as originals. It's pretty clear that people know not to pay a lot of money if they're not sure the item's authentic.

How many stories have we heard about unscrupulous dealers trying to sell the Classic Luke, Han, Chewie, and Vader as originals? Doesn't seem like a problem and right now is the easiest time to pull it off since so few people are even aware they were released.

The real threat to vintage isn't with the figures, it's with the packaging. Custom cards, resealed cards, fakes of every kind are everywhere--yet MOC vintage is still where the money's being made.

[ 07-11-2002, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: Bounty Hunter XP-4060 ]

JosephY
07-11-2002, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by Bounty Hunter XP-4060:


This thread is about the future. It's about what methods the convention managers can take to better assure that convention exclusives are going to the people they are ostensibly intended for. I was looking for suggestions from other fans to see if we could collectively find the best, or best possible, system. [QUOTE]

====

Best possible solution for the convention exclusive is (in my opinion) to do the same as the GI Joe fan club does, when you order your convention pass, you can also order the figure. That way fans that can't go, can still get the figure, but it'll cost them the price of admission anyway.And as was sugguested earlier for the continued demand for the Sacul, a white mailer box version would make a lot of people happy.

[QUOTE][/QB]
As for JYX1138's concerns over new Classic reissues hurting the vintage market, I did give that a lot of thought. Using other hobbies as reference, I simply don't agree that it's certain that reissuing vintage-mold figures would do much damage to the vintage market.

Reprints haven't hurt the Golden Age or Silver Age comic book markets. If anything, reprints generated more--not less--interest in those originals because newcomers had an affordable entry point.
------------------------------------------------

Big difference with reprinting old comics is that the covers and advertising have changed drastically. making it near impossible to pass the reprint off as original. And unfortunatly there have been instances in the past where scam artists have taken reprints and attempted to sell them as the originals. There have even been cases where people have used pages from reprinted issues to attempt to restore high end books with missing or damaged pages.

------------------------------------------------
Hasbro's remakes of vintage G.I.Joes certainly hasn't hurt the vintage market. Vintage Joe prices have gone UP in recent years, not down. Same goes for most collectibles, particularly with high-grade items.

So it's my view that reissues won't hurt the value of most of the vintage stuff. It might bring down the prices of low-condition items, but since C5 figures can often be found around $5-6, I don't think they'll be too affected.
------------------------------------------------

I doubt that the MOC prices would be affected , but I see there being a serious loss in the even mint condition loose vintage market
-------------------------------------------------
I don't think if Hasbro released a Classic 4-pack with minty-fresh Blue Snaggletooth, Yak Face, Amanaman, and rocket-firing Boba Fett that the prices of C9 vintage versions will fall. Anybody who's willing to pay $100 or more for a little plastic figure isn't going to let a modern reissue change his/her mind. The POTF2 Yak Face and POTJ Amanaman are almost dead-on to the vintage versions and I haven't seen any outcry about prices dropping.

If this theory of "reissues will devalue vintage" were true, then we'd have already seen the devastation among vintage vehicles. This hasn't happened. And most of the new vehicles are only cosmetically different.
-------------------------------------------------

MOST vintage vehicles took a HUGE loss in value and interest when the reissues hit. A prime example being the A-Wing . Before the POTF2 version came out I'd seen auctions for loose A-Wings top at close to $400. Since then I've seen boxed ones sell at that price. Granted, they ARE rebounding a bit, but are still not back to thier pre rerelease prices. The Skiff is another vehicle that lost value with the rerelease. Once again it is rebounding a bit, but still not up to where it was at one point.
--------------------------------------------------

So, it is my opinion that reissues of vintage will--if anything--create more interest in vintage. And since vintage is of finite supply, that can only drive prices up, not down.

As for concerns over dealers passing off new as for vintage, well again I have to go to other hobbies as reference. While there are many newly made GIJoes that look identical to the vintage ones, scamming of this sort hasn't been a problem. Same with comic book reprints being sold as originals. It's pretty clear that people know not to pay a lot of money if they're not sure the item's authentic.
-------------------------------------------------

The main difference is that most loose Joes don't get near the prices of the majority of loose Star Wars. I'm sure that there's some sleazeball dealer that's sold (or tried to sell) a reissued Baroness as the real thing.
--------------------------------------------------

How many stories have we heard about unscrupulous dealers trying to sell the Classic Luke, Han, Chewie, and Vader as originals? Doesn't seem like a problem and right now is the easiest time to pull it off since so few people are even aware they were released.
-

The real threat to vintage isn't with the figures, it's with the packaging. Custom cards, resealed cards, fakes of every kind are everywhere--yet MOC vintage is still where the money's being made.[/QB]<font size="2" face="arial">I don't argue that there are tons of scammers attempting to defraud collectors with resealed garbage, restored card crap and all the like.I just don't feel that Hasbro needs to add feul to the fire by rereleasing the vintage figure line.
Especially when they can't seem to get the modern line right by a lot of collectors standards.

Cheers
Joseph

Bounty_Hunter_XP
07-11-2002, 08:29 PM
Even so, the release of the POTF2 A-Wing serves a much greater good. Imagine, there's a whole generation of kids who get to own--and play with--an A-Wing. It's my view that THAT is worth far, far more than keeping up premium prices.

JediRiff
07-31-2002, 12:44 AM
A very close friend of mine, and myself, were unable to attend C2, but he has a brother that lives near Indy, and went. His brother, his son, and his wife were going to pick up a figure for him, his son, and one for his brother (my friend) and myself. He waited in line for quite some time, and wound up walking away empty handed. I do think its a shame when the folks that attended couldnt even get one for themselves. (If he had been able to just get ONE, we would have told him to give it to his son, but he couldnt even get him one)

But, while thats a shame, the way I see it is sooner or later I will get my hands on it. To the folks that didnt get one, just sit back and bide your time. It will happen for you. I got the Toyfair vader, and it only cost me $10, I believe. And I am sure that sooner or later I will get the Sacul figure. Dont let it get you down! images/icons/wink.gif