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View Full Version : Why did Vader/Empire not go to Tatooine in ROTJ?



4__LOSW
08-21-2001, 01:29 AM
I always wondered why Vader or the Empire did not secretly wait on a hidden base for Luke?Vader knew he would come back for Solo(since he hatched the plan in ESB for the first Solo trap)why wouldnt he think it would not work again,or for that matter,just common sense that he would go to help again.I hope Episode 2 or 3 will explain this or it will become a plot hole that is just WAY to big to just say "he did not think of it." or some other bologna.Anyone have a legit reason for not only Vader going there,but the Empire itself to trap Luke again?

_DJ_
08-21-2001, 06:55 AM
All the sand in the air would clog his breathing apparatus and he would suffocate. http://www.collectstarwars.com/ubb/images/icons/smile.gif

No really, you have a good point. I too believe that it should be explained why Vader never went to Tatooine. Even in ANH when they find the droids, he sends troopers to take care of it, but in all the other films he takes matters dealing with any rebel situation into his own hands. Like on Hoth and Endor. Maybe he has too many bad memories, growing up there and all. http://www.collectstarwars.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

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JediTricks
08-21-2001, 09:29 AM
Solo is in the clutches of Jabba the Hutt, who displays him proudly among all his cohorts and palace guests. Do you really think they wouldn't know if the Emperor and his troops started snooping around, waiting in orbit or something? If even one of them spots the Imperial forces, the word would spread quickly throughout Jabba's palace and would get back to Luke and his friends, who'd have a good advantage over an Imperial fleet at Tatooine.

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4__LOSW
08-21-2001, 03:02 PM
That is why I said HIDDEN base.I did not mean an entire star destroyer fleet with a whole regiment of troops waiting,that still does not make sense too with Jabba being nervous with the Empire hanging around.I beleve Jabbas cohorts and actions are very well indirectly watched and controlled somewhat by the Emperor/Empire,correct?So why would they freak out,Jabba would most likely assist the Empire because they regulate his actions,somewhat I say.Also,if you counter that point,I will say that a hidden discreet unit could watch Jabbas palace,they are the EMPIRE,and let Vader/Imperial leaders know of the rebel presence.Do you see my point?

amarsella
08-21-2001, 07:18 PM
OK here's my 2cents.

It is obvious from ESB that Vader has a relationship with Boba Fett. Fett is the only BH that Vader speaks directly to, and Fett doesn't get the old choke hold when he complains or protests to Vader. Vader also tells Fett "You may take Capt. Solo to Jabba the Hutt after I have Skywalker." Vader knows where Solo is and I'm sure that he knows that Skywalker will attempt to rescue him again. The Imperials wouldn't need a secret base or a fleet in orbit to find Luke. If Vader wanted, he could easily send in a garrison and take him from Jabba. There would be a fight I'm sure but eventually Jabba would run out of henchmen and the Stormtroopers would take over the palace.

Here's why I think he doesn't:
1. The Imperial armies are getting ready to destroy the rebellion. The Emperor has laid out a plan that allowed the DS to seem not ready when it is actually fully operational. There would be no time to worry about fighting Jabba and trying to get Skywalker from him.

2. And I think this is the main reason.
The Emperor tells Vader that Luke will come to him, that he he has "foreseen it". I'm sure that the Emperor wanted Luke to be as strong as possible before he challenged Vader again. That way he would either kill Vader and become the next apprentice of Palpatine or kill the Emperor so Vader and Luke could "rule the galaxy together as father and son."

I hope there is some foreshadowing in EP2 and 3 about whay Vader would not want to return to Tatooine, but for now I stick with this theory.




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Matt_Fury
08-21-2001, 10:41 PM
Nice points amarsella, but I think the real reason was that the Emperor sent Vader to Endor to get the Death Star II project back on schedule before he arrived and made him stop looking for Luke. When the Emperoro arrives at the DS, he says to Vader, "...and now I sense that you wish to continue your search for young Skywalker."

Even though Vader could've put some people on the job of capturing Luke, he wanted Luke taken alive so strongly, that he did not want to trust such an important job to underlings. Plus, with Luke's strength in the force, he probably would've wiped the floor with any non-Jedi Vader sent after him.

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4__LOSW
08-22-2001, 03:02 AM
Those were excellent points Amarsella,I am satisfied with those comments and now it can make sense with the Emperor telling him to wait for him,I never thought of that because the Emperor remarks were after the Jabba sequence,I guess Lucas should have had the Emperor say these onscreen before the Jabba battle,because Vadedid not get official orders to wait for Luke until after the Jabba battle.You get my point of view?Anyway,Emperor could of just been rehashing this conversation with Vader again telling him to wait for him to come to him,as far as we know.

amarsella
08-22-2001, 05:52 AM
Matt Fuy
I forgot about that scene with the Emperor. Good point. I think the Emporer was playing with Vader also. The Emporer knows how sttrong Luke will be and I think he has his reasons for why he wants Vader to wait.

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Anthony Marsella
amarsella@collectstarwars.com
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POTF2 and EP1 Toy Archive Editor

08-22-2001, 08:51 AM
In E3 Anakin returns to Tatooine to bet on a few pod races. While there, he had a Chuba for lunch that was past it's sell by date. After spending most of the Clone Wars with the Hershey sguirts, he vowed he'd never return.

11-14-2001, 09:13 PM
Again an old topic but the answer to this question has been answered in EU. The emperor sent his hand (mara Jade) to kll skywalker when he arrived (she was disguised as a dancer). Jabba before leaving to go to the sarlac, however asked her to leave and never come back to his palace, he didnt divulge he knew who she was, but merely gave her transportation to leave

JesseJames
11-15-2001, 12:28 AM
Since EU's debateable/arguable as to its validity, and this is a movie topic, my personal feeling is Vader was pulled back for the Endor project... The Emperor was never 100% backing to Vader's search for Luke, just the crushing of the Rebellion... The Emperor has now envisioned a plan to lure both in, but the ultimate victory over the Alliance is his priority, and Vader is needed for it... So I could see him being pulled back from his unrelenting search. Topping that with the time spent on Tatooine was probably relatively short, and a blockade of the planet during wartime would be an invaluable allocation of necessary resources during trying times for a stressed war machine

11-15-2001, 12:35 AM
again, George Lucas oversee most star wars projects and has a hand in them, this is from a book licensed by lucas, agian i consider this mre valid then someones opinion. Another fact, not opinion from Eu is that at no time was a major part of the EMpire fighting the rebellion they were more busy governing this huge buracracy.........

apokolips
11-15-2001, 07:42 AM
Sorry, but Mara Jade wasn't even a scribble on a post-it note back when ROTJ was made. You can't really count her as part of the Emperor's back-up plan when she didn't exist in any form, even thought, for at least ten more years. Just because some EU writers wove her into this web of stories doesn't make it "real."

11-15-2001, 09:45 AM
This is riduculous, but your right she didnt exist then alot of theing and characeters, didnt, which left questions and cliffhangers, that are now answered, does a story have to be all composed and finished in the very begining? Of course it was added later, that does not change the fact. Someones negative opinion of Eu doesnt make the actiosn in these novels that transpired unvalid in the mythos

apokolips
11-15-2001, 09:55 AM
I actually like EU. I'm just saying that if you expect Lucas to play by the rules set down by the EU writers, you're going to be very disappointed. The only EU book Lucas has ever read is Shadows of the Empire. He does not and will not consider them a part of "his" continuity.

LandotheScoundrel
11-15-2001, 10:15 AM
Well, I suppose some of them are fun to read (I enjoy the short stories, Cantina, Jabba's Palace, etc.) and the Mara Jade figure is kinda cool, but I personally use what is in the movie to fill in the blanks. My expectations from childhood were never quite met with the books. I never liked the explanations. Too much coincidence, and too much cheese. Does anyone like Boba Fett being invited to Dengar's wedding? My eyes practically started to bleed when I read that. I read the Han Solo books that came out a few years ago, where he breaks up a cult and some other stuff. At one point he's hiding in a closet and Vader walks in. That's just lame. There's definitely cool stuff, but most of it is a let down IMO.

Sprry75
11-15-2001, 11:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Does anyone like Boba Fett being invited to Dengar's wedding? My eyes practically started to bleed when I read that. I read the Han Solo books that came out a few years ago, where he breaks up a cult and some other stuff. At one point he's hiding in a closet and Vader walks in. That's just lame. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROTF,LMAO images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/grin.gif

JesseJames
11-15-2001, 12:49 PM
Sedriss, i don't think you understand that while you can argue EU points, you can't claim them as the gospel you do... EU IS JUST AN OPINION OF THE AUTHOR, no different than my, or apokolips', or anyone else's opinion on EU

If you honestly believe George Lucas (Even after my giving you his lil quote on Boba Fett's resurection) scrutinizes EU and makes sure it's what HE wants for the galaxy, then I have a few Bridges in New York City I'd like to sell you...

EU is opinion, that's the point... This is the type of thing that ruins Star Wars enjoyment for some... The pushing of opinions

Arguing an opinion is one thing... Point out your valid reasons why that EU explanation is better than anyone else's, and you're involved in the discussion, but just saying "It's EU, and that holds more weight than your opinion" is like saying "I'm taking my ball and going home"

If I thought everything someone penned was good or fit, then I'd be one euphoric person, and treat everyone that was involved with Star Wars as god... But the fact is, I wrote a lil myself back in the day, and I personally (And believe me, my reference galary for Star Wars is pretty extensive itself) think some EU is crap... not all, but some. The joys of living in a free country... It's all opinion, and ONLY THE MOVIES are canon. THAT is a fact, so that's the rules one has to play with here... Doesn't that free everyone up to think for themselves on this discussion board?

12-06-2001, 03:27 PM
I loved the Rogue Squadron Series and Tales of the Mos Eisley Cantina. However, other than that and the Zhan trilogy, pretty much everything sux. Like how in the Han Solo or Corrilian trilogy, or whatever, well, Han and Chewwy are imprisoned in Kessel, but escape and discover:
"The Suncrusher"
a only partially creasted machine like the DS that is cappable of destroying an entire galax- LAAAAME. images/icons/tongue.gif
It's stories like these and the ones with the Solo twins and Courtesy of Princess Leia and Chrystal Star that just suck.
And Lando, about that Dengar wedding thing, are you SERIOUS?
images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/shocked.gif Please tell me you were just kidding. images/icons/shocked.gif

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: b-man ]

MisterPL
12-06-2001, 08:16 PM
I just got off the phone with George Lucas.*

He said that Darth Vader will make an appearance on Tatooine, but not in Return of the Jedi. Instead, George* will insert footage shot last summer of Vader visiting the remains of Lars Homestead into the DVD release of A New Hope. It is one of six scenes that will be added to help bridge the prequels with the original trilogy.

I don't know if it has anything to do with Vader seeking out his son, or if it's just some bittersweet homecoming for the Dark Lord. Thought you might be interested.

Gotta go. Gene Roddenberry's** on the other line.

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* My friend spells his name S-t-a-n-l-e-y B-o-n-c-z-e-k, but he pronounces it "George Lucas."

** Sometimes I call my mom "Gene Roddenberry." She thinks it's cute.

jwickjedi
12-06-2001, 09:30 PM
MisterPL.....Did you ask Mr. Lucas about his recent.............D I E T ! ! ! ! ! !

12-07-2001, 01:28 AM
Oddly enough, I agree with all of you, I read alot of the EU, and some I love, some is, too put it bluntly, sucks. But anyway,to the question at hand...

Isn't it possible that Vader and the Emperor didn't worry about setting another trap for Luke because they didnt' need to ? when last they saw each other, Vader shocked Luke by revealing he was Luke's father. As the Emperor told Vader, "in time, he will seek you out." While Vader wanted to pursue, the Emperor probably kept him in line, allowing Luke to become more powerful, but still dealing with the knowledge, which Yoda confirmed before he died, that Vader was his father. Living with that must have been difficult, especially after Leia, Chewie, Lando and 3PO related the tales of what Vader did to them and Han at Bespin (not to mention everything else Vader was responsible for). This would serve to help make Luke more and more agitated, unable to control his emotions. As patient as Palpatine was, I think this could be why he allowed Luke to be the one rushing in head long. Palpy was a master strategist, a great Dejarik player, he just didn't see the sweeping move at the end of the game...

LandotheScoundrel
12-07-2001, 01:55 AM
I'm sure that's a big part of it. There were also other urgent matters, I'm sure. Vader and the Emperor were busy people.

LandotheScoundrel
12-07-2001, 08:24 AM
I'm not even *****ting you about the Boba Fett going to Dengar's wedding. And to add insult to injury, Dengar asks Boba Fett to be his "best man". Aparently, earth customs are celebrated across the universe. Now isn't that just freakin' horrible? These authors had the opportunity to write about some of the most kick *** characters in the SW universe...the bounty hunters....and this is what we get. It really shows a lack of talent, when you're such a crappy writer that you can't put together a good story without a lame gimmick or crosscrossing the rest of the saga like a freakin shoelace.. IG-88 downloads his conciousness into the death star 2 seconds before it gets destroyed. Dengar and Boba Fett become good buddies after Boba Fett climbs out of the sarlacc pit (I'm not even going to go into the whole "Boba Fett getting out of the sarlacc" thing). 4-LOM and Zuckuss join the rebellion, and I think they're somewhere off-camera at the end of ESB when Luke and Leia are watching the Falcon head off for Jabba's palace. Bossk meets up with some other "bounty hunters" who were late for Vader's meeting or something along those lines and then he ends up getting killed (one of the less-terrible stories). They had a chance to give us some great reservoir dogs stuff with these bounty hunters, and it became Dengar's Wedding and Bossk's Funeral. And FYI, this is just one book. I'm not even getting into the rest of the crap.

Allie_Fox
12-14-2001, 03:34 PM
Back to the topic. . .

Perhaps Vader DID have a "secret" operative working in Jabba's Palace.

We know that Vader and the Empire were willing to pay a bounty hunter to do some of their "dirty work" so why not hire Boba Fett to hang around the palace and wait for Skywalker and the gang to show up?

I think I read a thread somewhere her that asks why Boba Fett hung arround after collecting his bounty, maybe this was why.

. . .and maybe that is why he tied Luke up with that wrist rocket rope thrower thing instead of just blasting him to bits.


Just a few thoughts!

LandotheScoundrel
12-15-2001, 10:33 AM
You just KNOW Fett was waiting for the opportunity to show that thing off for the camera! images/icons/wink.gif

But he tries to blast Luke with his wrist blaster when Luke jumps to the other skiff, so maybe not? We already know he hangs out with Jabba, when we see him in ANH:SE. Maybe Lucas just wanted him to be one of Jabba's goons....Not freelance like he is in the stories. Either that, or he just hangs out with Jabba alot.

Allie_Fox
12-17-2001, 07:13 AM
Yes he tries to blast Luke, but only after his failed attempt to capture him alive.

LandotheScoundrel
12-17-2001, 10:51 AM
I have a feeling that if Boba Fett was assigned to capture Luke by Vader, he'd know better than to even think about trying to kill Luke.

MisterPL
12-17-2001, 08:29 PM
So Fett's blaster was set to "stun," not "disintegrate."

I can feel an "Infinities" storyline coming on already... Nope. Just gas.

LandotheScoundrel
12-18-2001, 08:09 AM
A good infinities story would be if Luke was holding his lightsaber upside down when he first switched it on. images/icons/grin.gif

Allie_Fox
01-25-2002, 09:18 AM
Fett is bold enough to test Vader's order.

Fett is known for his ability to bring in a bounty. Be it dead or alive. I'm pretty sure Fett prefers DEAD. Remember that Vader had to specifically point out to Fett that he didn't want Solo disintergrated.

I can imaigine an order being given to Fett:

"I want him brought to me at any cost. Only kill him if ALL attempts at capture fail."

Fett might only have ONE method of capturing a victim alive. He tried Luke thwarted the attempt. . . now, time to use LETHAL force.

01-29-2002, 11:52 PM
Originally Vader was supposed to talk with Luke telepathically on Tatooine after Vader finished talking to Jerjerrod. Also this was supposed to happen right after Luke puts his lightsaber in R2.

LandotheScoundrel
01-30-2002, 10:12 AM
Yeah, I just read that the other day. Maybe Vader didn't really care, since he knew that his destiny was intertwined with Luke's and that he would find Luke eventually. Either that, or he underestimated the rebellion's loyalty to its comrades. He may have figured that Luke wouldn't have tried to rescue Han, but would rather have written him off and continued the rebellion.