PDA

View Full Version : Is Vader afraid of Tatooine?



Tooth_Kroth
07-29-2000, 04:04 PM
In ANH, Darth Vader suspects that the extremely important Death Star plans have made their way to Tatooine. He orders a Commander (or Captian Terrik) to the surface to see that the plans are retrieved. This seems a little odd to me.

Why would Darth Vader, a "man" who is known to join his troops on the front-line, pawn off such an important task to a Commander?

Is there a reason why he doesn't go to the surface?

Is there something on Tatooine that he does not want to face or relive?

Did Kenobi know that Vader would never set foot on that planet again and is this a reason why he chose Tatooine for Luke to be raised?

I wonder if this planet will be partly responsible for Anakin's embrace of the Dark Side. Some have speculated that Shmi is murdered and this plays a major part, but that is more of a Prequel topic. I would like to know if anyone else has given any thought to Vader's lack of boldness when it came to retieving those plans. The protection of the mighty Death Star was at stake and he seemed to blow it off like it was no big deal.

Could Vader have secretly wanted the Death Star destroyed? He sure did jump down Admiral Motti's throat when he started to brag about it.

Any thoughts?

JediTricks
07-29-2000, 06:33 PM
I've never really thought much about it, merely wrote it off as being "Vader sending his troops to do his bidding, just as the Emperor sends Vader" but when I think about it, a detachment of troopers is sent down to the planet to look for the plans and then the Star Destroyer has to rush off to the Death Star to turn Leia over to Tarkin. So I think Vader just doesn't have time to stop and comb the planet for some stolen plans personally.

------------------
"At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we will have tutti-******"

BHC Moderator of POTF2, Galoob, Films
SSG Micro Machines and Lego Editor

[This message has been edited by JediTricks (edited 07-29-2000).]

SpaceGhost2K
08-05-2000, 02:30 PM
"Your mind tricks will not work on me, boy." Jabba to Luke.
"I'm a Toydarian. Mind tricks don't work on-a me, only money." Watto to Qui-Gon.
OK, those quotes are probably paraphrased. Question is, aren't Hutts and Toydarians supposedly native to Tatooine? So if Tatooine natives are force-resistant, maybe that would explain why Vader doesn't want to go back there. It weakens his abilities. It also allowed Obi-Wan to remain hidden there for so long.
Anyone know if Tusken Raiders and/or Jawas are Tatooine natives and whether they too are force-resistant? I don't think the films give any examples.

------------------
"Mousetrap. I wanted to play Mousetrap. You roll your dice, you move your mice. Nobody gets hurt."

[This message has been edited by SpaceGhost2K (edited 08-05-2000).]

Tooth_Kroth
08-05-2000, 03:15 PM
Although Jabba is from Nal Hutta and Watto is from Toydar, you have a very interesting point SpaceGhost2K.

I wonder if Tatooine itself does have some sort of effect on the Force. I know Anakin was not born there, but could it be that his powers are somewhat dampened on Tatooine? Could it be that the planet is what masks Obi-Wan's presence there? After all, Darth Vader was right above Old Ben's hut and he didn't detect his presence at all.

Hmmm...if a planet can have altering effects on the Force, then this could one big reason why Master Yoda chose Dagobah to hide-out on. This may be a stretch, but maybe Shmi did have some knowledge of her son's potential power and deliberately took Anakin to Tatooine so that she may raise him like a "normal" boy - slave status not withstanding. She may have wanted to protect him from detection and at the same time mute his strength a bit. You know, she was a little resistant to letting Anakin help even a Jedi Knight. I think she knows a lot more than she lets on.

Back to the topic, this whole thing leads me to another question:
Why does Vader not detect Obi-Wan Kenobi on the planet below. Yes it is a long way down, but Vader and Obi-Wan have a very significant past and I would imagine they know eachother's "scent" pretty well. Anyway, any thoughts?



[This message has been edited by Twoth Kroth (edited 08-05-2000).]

SpaceGhost2K
08-05-2000, 04:11 PM
If you can "sense" the force like a smell, Anakin should have reeked when Qui-Gon was there. Still, all he said was "there's something about this boy." How about 20,000 friggin midi-chlorians per sample, Mister Jedi MASTER???
The planet did allow a certain amount of the force... Ben tricked the stormtroopers, Anakin piloted the podracer, Qui-Gon cheated with the chance cube.
Yet only recent transplants to the planet had the mind thing used on them. Kenobi didn't get Evazen or Baba to back down in the Cantina. Darth Maul cound't track our heroes down (he had to use probes), Qui-Gon didn't sense Maul following them, etc.
Personally, I think Tatooine holds (will hold) too many bad memories for Vader after his mother is killed in EP2.

------------------
"Mousetrap. I wanted to play Mousetrap. You roll your dice, you move your mice. Nobody gets hurt."

Tooth_Kroth
08-05-2000, 08:30 PM
I guess we could go further and say that Palpatine stood right next the entire Jedi Council and they weren't even on Tatooine.

The point I was getting at is that it may be possible that Tatooine has some effect on the Force. Not to say that it negates it, but possibly alters it somehow. Although I do believe something bad happens to Shmi and that is why Anakin/Vader will not go back there, I like the idea of Tatooine having a larger part in the saga.

I guess the "sensing" other Force sensative beings comes from reading too many EU books, but the films do show Luke, Ben and Vader sensing each other's presence. It is intersting that Ben does not calm Dr. Evazan and Ponda Baba with a mind trick. That would have been much more quiet than whipping out the saber, gutting one and slicing off another's arm.



[This message has been edited by Twoth Kroth (edited 08-05-2000).]

08-08-2000, 02:31 PM
Maybe Darth Vader Pomished Himself THat he Would Never Step Foot On Tattionee. Maybe His Mother Died While He Was Gone And He Never Returned Because Alot Of Emotions Would Flood Him In Front Of His Troops.
http://www.collectstarwars.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif http://www.collectstarwars.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif http://www.collectstarwars.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif http://www.collectstarwars.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif http://www.collectstarwars.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif http://www.collectstarwars.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif


------------------
They Were In The Right Store,At The Right Time. Naturally They Bought POTJ Figures!-From The Journal Of The Collector

Vist My Website,The Royal House Of Alderaan, At http://hometown.aol.com/s2000sean/theroyalhouseofalderaan.html

08-13-2000, 08:16 PM
Back to the force altering planets. I heard once awhile ago that Yoda chose daigobah because it did screw with the Force.

Remember the cave? It was supposedly very strong with the dark side of the force. This is what caused the trippy sequence with Luke and Vader.

When Palpy tries to use the force to locate Yoda on Daigobah the cave screws with his Jedi sensing abilities and, maybe sends a message back to him that yoda is not there.

Light side (Yoda) and Dark side (cave) cancel each other out.

So Tatooine might have the same kind of thing going for it that Daigobah had.

The question is, if an inanimate object can have more or less of the light or dark side of the force in it, what makes it so.

Maybe a very signifigant occurance in the force might tend to leave some kind of "afterglow" of the force in a certain location.

Maybe if a very powerful Jedi or Sith is killed in a location it might leave behind a smattering of midichlorians which leaves a J's or S's "essence". Hence the location is infected with the light or dark side.

Another signifigant occurance might be a very powerful Jedi's turn to the light side of the force. Like Annie coming back and finding that the mandalorian's (or whoever)
slaughtered a bunch of slaves including his mother. This might enrage annikan enough to turn dark right on the spot. This might be a signifigant enough occurance to leave a place infected with the light side.

Ida know am I saying anything that might make sense?

Tooth_Kroth
08-13-2000, 10:58 PM
Actually Sethlord2, a lot of what you said makes sense.

It is rumored that Yoda defeats a Sith Lord on Dagobah that was following him. This is supposedly the reason that the cave is so strong with the Dark Side.

Also, you have a great idea about Light and Dark sides of the Force cancelling each other out to the senses of Force users. This may help explain how Palpatine can stand in the midst of the entire Jedi Council and not be detected. They are simply cancelling each other out. It is interesting that Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon can sense a disturbance in the Force when Maul is around, but at a distance. However, they don't seem to sense him in the Theed Hanger at all. He is seen before he is sensed. This is also evident on Tatooine. Qui-Gon surely would have moved closer to Anakin to protect him, or given him more time to duck, had he sensed Maul's appraoch.

We may have stumbled upon something here. Could it be that the closer a Light Side user and Dark Side user get to each other, the more they dampen each other's sensing abilities? If so, then this would be a great explanation to why Palpatine sticks so close to the Jedi Council and their temple. In order for him to remain undetected, he must stay within a certain distance to those Light Side users. In addition, Yoda ,as Sethlord2 has pointed out, may have needed that Dark Side presence in order to remain hidden.

Hmmm...very interesting. Any more thoughts in here?

08-17-2000, 08:52 PM
Twoth Kroth, your posts are so intelligent that they leave me breathless. I mean, it's been a while since I've read something that reaches how I view things aobut SW...

First of all, that Tatooine-reticence facts tend to convey from Lord Vader/Anakin in ANH is obviously linked to what happened in his past. For Vader, Tatooine is home of all that he once was. Tatooine is the home of the young and innocent lad he was before falling into the Dark Side. Tatooine is a link to all that was good in him: it brings back very painful memories of his loved ones, of his friends, of his mother.

It is unnecessary to say that Anakin's fall into the Dark Side will be linked somehow to his mother. Yoda underlined it very clearly in Episode 1, Anakin reveals his source of sadness to Padmé, tbe resentment we feel when turning his back on his mother are too obvious hints of that fate. I believe the script wouldn't have been more precise by litteraly saying it: either Anakin fears something wrong will happen to his mother if he's not around to protect her, or either Anakin does not feel man enough to confront the world alone without his mother (which I doubt - I believe the first hypothesis is the correct answer here).

This idea of the anxiety of Anakin towards his mother's fate also leads to many specualtions on what might be the catalyst of Anakin's fall. It may be love. It may be hate. But it might also be fear. And fear leading to anger, anger leading to hate and hate to suffering, the path is traced very neatly in our mind on what emotions the young lad will undergo before falling into the Dark Side of the Force. Luke followed the very same path when he tried to rescue his friends in ESB. Anakin being stronger in the Force than Luke most likely was, his visions of his mother suffering might lead him to take harsh and terrible decisions, against which his Master Obi-Wan won't be strong enough to overcome. Anakin will go back to Tatooine and he will suffer from his impatience.

We all know something terrible will happen when Anakin returns to Tatooine. We have ideas, we expose hypothesis, even without knowing the story we can tell it and we sense it. And that terrible thing that will happen on Tatooine will mark Anakin forever. He will be changed and will only recover from it at the very end, when confronting his own son before Emperor Palpatine.

My feeling is that Anakin will fail to do what he was planning to do by going back to his homeworld. He will fail and, his heart broken and his will shattered in tiny pieces of hate, anger and vengeance, he will return back to his Jedi Order and confront them for what they took from him (time with his mother, I guess). He will make them hhis sole responsible for what has happened. If he was there all along at the side of his mother, he would have been able to protect her.

I also believe that the sole thought of his mother will be not only painful for Vader-alias-Anakin, it will distract him from the vengeance that invades his heart and soul. Fearing the sadness and emotions that are buried deep beneath his soul, Vader will always ressent approaching his homeworld because it links him to the honest boy he once was. It brings back memories of failure and certainly of an overwhelming sadness that would bring him back to the good side of the Force by bringing back what was once good in him. Luke succeeded to do so in ROTJ, but it was merely by accepting to self-sacrificing himself that he forced Anakin's feelings of love to resurface across the deep and thick emotional barrier the Sith Lord erected by becoming Darth Vader...

Obi-Wan surely discovered what happened and how Anakin feels about Tatooine, and it was the reason that led him to flee the rising menace and hide himself, with one of the two Anakin's offsprings, on the desert planet. I'm sure it wasn't with too much difficulty that the Jedi Master was able to take advantage of Anakin's ressentment about this planet by erecting a screening "Force field" around him and the boy he was given the task to protect. He surely simply had to accentuate Vader's emotions towards the planet so as to cloak his presence.

I do not believe planets act on the Force. Living things do interact on the Force and continuously speak to it and feel it flow thru and between all living and non-living things. But the rock cannot feel anything.

Dagobah. That Dark cave we all saw in ESB during Luke's training has something familiar. If you carefully look at those scenes, you'll discover starght wall patterns. They're no rocks: they're really straight, clean, walls, set at angles. I believe we'll learn something very incredible about this place in the next prequels. Maybe not in E2, but surely in E3. The most obvious hypothesis about this planet being in fact Naboo is perhaps not entirely dead. Nonetheless, I'm positive that we will, during E2 or E3, see Dagobah in his former form...

I'm almost convinced that Yoda will make something incredible when fleeing the Clone Wars. I'm also convinced that he will make Dagobah look how it looked in ESB. Thru the Force, he will make plants grow. He will force all sentient life to whether leave the planet... or die. He will attract thousands of ennemies to him in order to offer them to this big boopy trap he has set for them, nature crushing the foes and digesting them without mercy, covering the evidence, hiing it, destroying it. Thru the Good Side of Force, he will make Dagobah more alive than ever, helping it grow strong, but he will also make it more frightening, more deadly than ever. By so doing, he will be able to hide himself from the threat of the Empire, just long enough for Anakin's child to become an adult and to be trained as a Jedi Knight, their last hope to vainquish the Dark Side and restore the Balance of the Force. There, we will witness why Yoda is called "The Jedi Master". And prove us that a Jedi doesn't need to carry a lightsaber (which I really doubt Yoda will ever use on screen) to solve matters...

"What's in this cave?" Luke asked.
"Only what you bring with you" Yoda responded.
And as Luke was fastening his belt with hanging pistol and lightsaber, Yoda softly said:
"Your weapons, you won't need."



[This message has been edited by Jedi Patrick (edited 08-17-2000).]

08-18-2000, 10:36 AM
Those are definitely some cool ideas.

I just have two questions.

Yoda does say,"That place, is strong, with the dark side of the Force."

Now I don't think a rock can be all that strong with the force, but I could fathom a place being strong. I mean, I could see the Jedi COuncil Chambers on Coruscant being stronger with the force than say the bathroom in the local park on Coruscant.

Also, Jedi's are strong, but I don't know if they are strong enough to turn a planet into a full out vegetative booby trap. Did you see in Empire after Yoda moved Lukes X wing? He did let out a breath of air when he was done. It wasn't that easy for him. Sure, it wasn't that hard, but it was no walk in the park either.

Your scenarios are cool though I must say.

I kinda think that Shmi will be dead when Annie returns to Tatooine. I also think that the Emperor will use this against the Jedi. He might say the Jedi took him away from his mother and he could have been there to protect her.

I think that he might hold the Jedi's partially responsible for his mother's demise.

PodRacer_X
08-18-2000, 11:38 AM
I also think the ingredients to Anakin's downfall have been sewn in EP:1. His fear is linked to his mother, as stated before. This has been hammered home in several scenes. It is Yoda's ascertation that there is much fear in Anakin which disturbs the council and clouds his future. Fear leads Anakin to the dark side.

The nature of fear, at least for me, is something which leads to *inaction* rather than action. Fear paralyzes. Fear demasculates. By that logic, won't Anakin's downfall be triggered by not doing something he *should* have done in EP:2 or EP:3? Perhaps he has a chance to save his mother, and fails. If anything could lead to deep anger, I think this is it. "Fear leads to anger." This anger then leads to self-loathing and loathing for the people responsible for his seperation from Mama (the Jedi). "Anger leads to hate." I think we all know what happens from there. "Hate leads to suffering." Voila! Darth Vader is born, and he's out to wipe out a few planets!

The only other person with whom he has an emotional attachment is Padme (Amidala). I predict she will either be unable to save Anakin, thus he destroys her as his final, irreversable (or so we think) step into darkness, or something awful happens to her which helps push Annie into the dark armor.

Good discussion going on here.

08-18-2000, 11:47 AM
Could be....

Remember when Luke was gonna go save everybody in Empire and Yoda and Ben urge him to stay and complete his training?

Maybe Annie knows something is wrong on Tatooine and the Jedi Masters urge him to stay and complete his training.

He would probably obey and then something happens to Shmi thus causing resentment towards the Jedi.

He would have had that "Man if they only would have let me go!" feeling.

08-18-2000, 01:51 PM
All this theorizing is Fun!!! Once, a coworker introduced the the theory that Naboo became Dagobah, and at first, I balked at the idea... but really, it does kinda make sense that the Gungan's where wiped out at some point in the series... The evil tree/cave may in fact have some tie to Palpatines' past as well, being Naboo and all. So what kinda of calamity could have befallen Naboo to turn it into the "vacant" swamp of Luke's time? Pehaps it was the flashpoint of the ClonesWars or a final display of ultimate power by the Imperial Fleet that smashed a fledgling rebellion, and as a side effect, eliminated Palpatine's secrets... I'm really curious to find out, if ever, where Palpatine got his "training".

08-18-2000, 02:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trusty Gonk:
I'm really curious to find out, if ever, where Palpatine got his "training". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It has been mentioned that Darth Bane will be in EP2. I theorize that at some point, Palpatine comes across an antique Sith Holocram, similar to Luke's Jedi Holocram in post-ROTJ EU. And being the power-monger he is, he starts studying under Darth Bane. At which point he surcomes to the Dark Side.

brew
08-18-2000, 02:49 PM
but that would go against the "always two there are, master and an apprentice".. Palp/Sidious would have to have been an apprentice at one point, chosen by whoever trained him.. I think there will be some sort of flashbacks to Bane as a reference of how the Sith became so few after nearly destroying themselves in their power struggles..

08-18-2000, 04:22 PM
I don't think we'll see Darth Bane at all, who is more part of the Sith history more than the story of the Skywalker family. Palpatine's past I'm sure will still remain unknown and yet to be discovered. We'll get some hints, some big lines, but nothing much. Palpatine is not the resurrector of the Dark Side and of the Sith. He's a Sith Lord who was once a Sith apprentice. I once believed too that he may have succomb to the dark side when studying the old Sith order, but manifestly, it appears that he's a descendant of a long line of Sith Lords...

Now, about my hypothesis of Yoda transforming Dagobah into a big vegetal and living booby trap, I mean, sure it would take a lot of strength and energy from him to use the Force over such drastic and titanesque proportions. But that might also explain why Yoda has grown so old and weak over the last years of his life. And why lifting the X-Wing was somewhat exausting to the Jedi Master. Maybe all his strength (or so to speak) was drained out of him at this ultimate act of war...

As for the cave to be filled with the Dark Side of the Force, I believe Yoda purposedly said that to direct the thoughts of his student toward fear, so as to show him how the Dark Side can be lurking from everywhere. Some kind of training metaphore, in a way, to help Luke overcome his fear. When Luke got down into the cave, he brought his weapon, thus his mind was already set up for a confrontation. His fear of what he might find inside this dark alley became reality when Vader appeared before him. But was it Vader? Or was it merely his thoughts leading him to imagine what was happening downb there? Maybe this cave was nothing more than a catalyst for Luke's fears, set up by Yoda for helping Luke to master his mind...

Podracer X, the way you told the story is exactly how I view things as well. For Anakin, the Jedi are the responsible for his failure. He was drawn away from the one he loved and because of that he might not be in the right position, even if he returned back there on Tatooine, to do more than a trial rescue. Maybe was he too late, maybe he was unaware of the Hutt being Force-insensitive (Anakin will confront JAbba... or at least, he will confront Gardulla. That I'm pretty sure of). History will repeat itself. Anakin will leave to help his loved ones, much like Luke did after him, against the will of his Master Obi-Wan, to save his mother. Anakin will have strong Force-induced dreams and visions. Imagine the follwoing: He'll see his mother dead, he'll be afraid of loosing her, he will get back on Tatooine to try to save her, only to understand at the very end that if he had not gone back, his mother would still be alive. He will understand that it was his sole presence, his sole come back that brought death for his mother...

Anyway, just trying to imagine how it can be. I believe by the end of this long wait, each and everyone of us will have written a whole E2 and E3 book by themselves... http://www.collectstarwars.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Jedi Patrick (edited 08-18-2000).]

08-18-2000, 05:55 PM
Twoth-

I must agree with your theory reguarding Tatooine being a place either feared or despised by Vader. Time will tell if that is why Luke and Obi-Wan eventually live there. You make the reasoned arguement better that I could have - very good work!

I believe (personally) that there are places that are either "strong" in the Force or "strong" with the dark side. Luke says "I feel cold..." and Yoda says it it is because the PLACE is strong with the Dark Side. In my own life, sometimes I get these strange feeling that I cannot explain sometimes - like I should NOT be where I am: or, I get a "warm" feeling about a place even though I have never been there before.

Remember, the Jedi and Sith are in tune to SPIRITUAL things as part of their Force traning. Yoda tries to explain this to Luke when he says that beings are more than "crude matter". The Jedi and Sith strive to understand the spiritual by seeking "the living Force". They will "see" things the other SW universe characters don't, even as it pertains to all or parts of planets.

08-18-2000, 10:03 PM
Second Thoughts: Is Vader affraid of Tatooine? part2, If Vader knows Luke and Leia will rescue Han in Return of Jedi, why wasn't he waiting for them on Tatooine then? I know EU, and Shadows Of The Empire may have answered this question... but it is curious. http://www.collectstarwars.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif I liked Jedi Patrick's thought's on the Cave, and the possible idea that it was only a reflection of Luke, not a cave imbued with tangible Dark Side power... To be truthful though, I like the idea of both.

Tooth_Kroth
08-18-2000, 10:57 PM
jediseely, I've checked my immediate sources and haven't found the reference which directly explains that Anakin was not born on Tatooine. Don't quote me on this, but I do believe that the novalization of Episode I mentions it. I will keep looking...

About the Death Star plans, there were some who didn't see the DS as unstoppable. General Tagge ("And what of the Rebellion? If the Rebels have obtained complete technical read-outs of this station, it is possible, however unlikely, that they might find a weakness..and expliot it"), for one, and Lord Vader for two. Vader, himself, did not have great confidence in the DS. It would be one thing for him to not care about the plans being retieved if it wasn't going to affect him, but he was on the DS immeditaely following the assumed loss of the plans which could be manipulated to destroy it. Although I whole-heartedly agree with you on the importance of taking Leia to the DS, I still feel that there is a much deeper reason for Darth Vader not going to the surface of his childhood planet.

Jedi Patrick, you make some very good points. I agree with your thoughts about Anakin blaming the entire Jedi order on something that goes wrong in his near future. Also, I feel that you are "dead-on" in your description of Luke's fears manifesting themselves into the image of Darth Vader in the cave. However, I do believe that that very cave is a place where Dark Side residue of a once living being remains "alive". I think that Force energy can live in inanimate objects and places. Therefore, I feel that the cave on Dagobah is alive with the Dark Side of the Force. Because of this, I don't think it is too much of a stretch to imagine a planet as a whole having effects on the Force, whether they be large or small.

I would be a fool to fully discount your idea of Yoda transforming Dagobah into an organic bear trap. It takes a great imagination to come up with something like that, although I haven't quite encorporated that into my always mutating SW doctrine.

PodRacer X, thanx for reminding me about Amidala's part in Anakin's fall. I've been so emersed in his trouble with his Mother that I started to forget about the queen's role in the sceme of things. OK, Anakin leaves his Mother and is visibly troubled with this. The only person in the galaxy that he trusts enough to guide him on that path away from home is Qui-Gon. Shortly after, Qui-Gon is waxed. Now these are very traumatic events which take place in quick sequence. However, a strong bond of love and friendship between himself and Amidala would surely be enough to keep him on the right track. However, Anakin does not stay on the right track. He flies completely off the track, down into a valley, into a river and deep into a bottomless pit to the center of Sith Hell. Something very bad clearly happens between Anakin and the queen. I wonder...

Jedi-Junior, that's a great point to being up at this point in this discussion! The Force has a spritual presence that only a relative few in SW galaxy are attuned to. For all we know, EVERY planet in the SW galaxy has it's own Force signature and personality. This may also be true for specific locations on a single planet. Surely, as Sethlord2 pointed out, the Jedi Temple has a certain strength in the Light Side of the Force.
__________________________________________________ __

This is really fine conversation here! Isn't it great to be among your own? What are your thoughts?





[This message has been edited by Twoth Kroth (edited 08-18-2000).]

Tooth_Kroth
08-18-2000, 11:03 PM
Good point Trusty Gonk. I would imagine that Vader could easily commission a thousand agents to follow sightings of Luke, Leia and Han. In fact, I'm sure Boba Fett could have sold that exact information to Lord Vader for a very nice price. Yet, Vader is nowhere to be seen on Tatooine. Could this be further evidence of his fear of that particular planet?

[This message has been edited by Twoth Kroth (edited 08-18-2000).]

08-19-2000, 12:31 AM
I love the theories that are being posted on this subject, and I hope that some of them do play out in EP2 & 3. However, I don't think Vader is "afraid" of Tatooine or any memories it may hold.

Remember, Commander Praji tells Vader that an escape pod was jettisoned during the battle, but it had no life forms. I think Vader felt sending a detactment to recover an escape pod, or a couple driods stranded in the middle of the desert, was well within their ability. Everyone, from the Emporer on down, felt the Death Star had no weaknesses. So even if they were unable to recover the plans, it wasn't a major loss. I think he felt getting Leia to the Death Star to learn the whereabouts of the Rebel base was a higher concern.

Plus, don't the scrolling at the beginning of ANH say that the Rebels had just won a major battle against the Empire? Maybe Vader's ship was too weak to stay over Tatooine and leave itself open to another attack.

Twoth Kroth you mention that you know Anakin was not born on Tatooine. Where is this mentioned? I have never heard this before, and was just wondering...

JediTricks
08-19-2000, 03:49 PM
We know exactly why Vader isn't on Tatooine, he's been told by the Emperor to get the Death Star II's main system online for the little "surprise". It's Vader's job to make sure the Death Star 2 is secretly working by the time the rebels get there.

------------------
"Luke... I may be your father!" - Next on Springer

BHC Moderator of POTF2, Galoob, Films
SSG Micro Machines and Lego Editor

04-29-2001, 04:36 PM
What if yoda stole a sith holocron before going to dagoboah and implanted it in the cave. It could reveal your worst fears and repel attention from force users.

Matt_Fury
04-30-2001, 12:59 AM
Ok...getting into EU here, the whole Dagobah/Yoda angle was theorized in the Heir to the Empire series, pretty much saying what has been said here. Yoda killed a Dark Jedi in the cave, then used the dark energy that remained to hide his presence. Just thought I'd add my two-bits. http://www.collectstarwars.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif

As for my hypothesis on the why Vader wouldn't go back to Tatooine idea. I figured it was a vow similar to what Luke said in ANH, "I'm never coming back to THIS planet again." My original theory was that Darth Sidious would send Darth Maul to Tatooine and kill Shmi Skywalker, then by having an enraged Anakin Skywalker dule Darth Maul and use his aggressive feelings to kill Maul, bring about the birth of Darth Vader, akin to what The Emperor tried to do with Luke in ROTJ. Unfortunately with the Death of Darth Maul in Episode One....I've had to do some re-thinking on my theory.

------------------
My name would be MattFury...if I could type!

"There's no mystical energy field that controls MY destiny! It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense!" - Han Solo

05-10-2001, 09:32 PM
Um, maybe sand in your cyber suit causes you to chaff something fierce.

LandotheScoundrel
05-11-2001, 08:22 AM
The only thing that pisses Vader off more than being in the full sunlight of a desert planet in a black, leather suit is being on that planet while both suns are up.

05-18-2001, 06:22 PM
All of your theories are quite impressive and fun to read. But I honestly believe that their will still be a lot of loop holes and things that dont correlate even after the last 2 movies are finished. George has done a poor job in my opinion as far as the characters recognizing and accepting each other and the story having a smooth and corelating representation. George making changes at the last minute , changing the ending to scenes changing the fate of characters...its a big mess. I mean Ben was originally supposed to survive A New Hope...Yoda was not even in the original screen play. I just seriously doubt that the next two movies are gonna make sense out of everything. We will keep waiting for that shining moment or moments when it all hangs out and honestly it might never come completely.....

Zuckuss44
05-20-2001, 06:59 PM
First off, I don't think Bane is in Ep 2 or 3. I know Anakin does go back to Tatooine, from the Selects on the main site, so something may happen then, such as Shmi dying or so on. I also love all the other theories in this thread, especially the Naboo-Dagobah one. Yoda did do something to Dagobah I bet, but not actually creating it. I agree with the two sides of the battery theory, Dark Side cancelling out Light Side, but I think Yoda did something else to protect himself. How did he survive against creatures, and how did he know what vegetation and food to eat? He had something to do with Dagobah, I'm sure of that. However, there are millions of planets and moons in the galaxy, so Naboo and Dagobah may be different. I can't wait to see how the Royal Guards play into Palpatine's role as the newly elected Supreme Chancellor. If anyone noticed, Valorum's guards looked just like them. Hopefully we will see them trained or changed. The Clone Wars might attribute to this too.
Twoth Kroth, I don't think it mattered to Vader about Tagge's insubordination("I find your lack of faith disturbing")
Last but not least, I think Vader was very busy, and had to send Leia on her way, as well as accompany Tarkin on the eve of the Death Star's completion. However, if you notice, it seems as if Darth Vader and Tarkin are the villians in Star Wars when it begins. No mention of Palpatine anywhere. Vader seems to be on Tarkin's leash. He should appear in Ep 2 or 3. Clive Revill was the original Emperor, because they needed a new villian in the next two movies. Tarkin may have asked Vader to come, originally in Lucas' mind, when Tarkin was the only "Emperor" character. Notice the 'Governor' title Leia gives him. "Ah, Governor Tarkin, I see you still have Vader on his leash."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What Vader didn't know was that when Fett said "As you wish", he was saying "I love you".

[This message has been edited by JediTricks (edited 05-22-2001).]

jwickjedi
05-21-2001, 06:36 PM
Dark Raider.....you MAY be right!!!! I kind of feel the same way with the movies.....the Greedo vs Han....and Jabba Scenes alone....didn't need them!!!!!!! Boba Fett became popular.....now we have his uhh..spoiler alert...uhh people who know, know where I'm going!!!!! I wonder myself if George changes his mind throughout the screenplays, catering to certain characters that may not need much story to or scenes with, etc.....leaving somethings never answered....but sometimes this is nice.....we can "theorize" all we want for years to come.....but some issues do NEED to be explained and spelled out and hopefully these will!!!!!!!!!! WE SHALL SEE!!!!!!!!!!

Matt_Fury
06-03-2001, 01:02 PM
Zuckuss 44....the Emperor may not have been in ANH, but he was mentioned. If you watch the scene where Vader chokes Motti with the Force, as Vader and Tarkin walk into the room, Tarkin tells the group that the Emperor has dissolved the Senate permanently, and that the Regional Governors now have direct control over their systems.

As for other continuity issues...I guess we'll just have to wait until the end of EP3 to find out.

------------------
My name would be MattFury...if I could type!

"There's no mystical energy field that controls MY destiny! It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense!" - Han Solo

Sith_Lord_Cosmo
06-07-2001, 06:46 PM
My feelings as to why Vader doesn't go to Tatooine...think about how hot it would get wearing that black armor of his. He'd fry himself. and BTW, Hutts are not native to Tatoonie.

------------------
<A HREF="http://crackhouse.8k.com
"Who's" TARGET=_blank>http://crackhouse.8k.com
"Who's</A> scuffy looking?"
-Han Solo

Tooth_Kroth
06-09-2001, 07:36 AM
Holy old posts!

It's been a while since I've dropped in on the films forums, but low and behold, an old thread emerges.

First, there is no doubt that the Emperor did exsist in AHN. We just don't get to see him.

Second, there is absolutly nothing wrong with Mr. Lucas making last minute changes to his films. Have any of you ever drawn or painted a picture? Or, have you worked on any sort of project that was concieved and delivered directly from your own imaginative womb? If you have, then you know that a work of art is never truely complete, only abandoned. Every time you step back and look at your creation, you will want to change something or add to it. That's the nature of creating art.

Also, there is no reason why everythnig in the SW films should be completely tied together and/or be explained. I take the book The Great Gatsby for expamle. One of the things that have made that book so popular over the years is the fact there are a lot of loose ends left unexplained. You are left to imagine your own reasons or conclusions. The same is true for SW. Granted, eveyone has different imaginative abilities. That is why a forum like this is able to exsist. If everything was clearly spelled-out for us, we'd be sitting here simply reaclling facts with no speculation at all. We'd sound like the old Chris Farley (God rest his soul) Show skit on Saturday Night Live sounding like:

"Yeah, and you remember that time when....when Vader said he was Luke's father?" "That was cool."



[This message has been edited by Twoth Kroth (edited 06-09-2001).]

06-22-2001, 06:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SpaceGhost2K:
Question is, aren't Hutts and Toydarians supposedly native to Tatooine?


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hutts evolved on Varl it got ruined and they went to Evocar enslaved the Evocii and renamed the place Nal Hutta. Toydarians are native to Toydaria not Tatooine neither of the species are force resistent Yoda or Vader could fool them easy.


[This message has been edited by Lord Nemisis (edited 06-22-2001).]

Quigonbyebye
06-23-2001, 12:16 AM
Twoth Kroth, I couldn't have said it better myself!! Great theories everyone! If you've been watching the tidbits of info form Lucas himself,

(Segmented edited out due to spoiler content, idea reposted in "Prequels-Spoilers" section here, where SPOILERS ARE PRESENT (http://www.collectstarwars.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/000308.html) -JT)

...Whereas Luke returned out of loyalty to Han and Leia.

------------------
I have a bad feeling about this...

[This message has been edited by JediTricks (edited 06-25-2001).]

steve_howard
06-25-2001, 05:42 PM
twoth kroth, I was thinking about what you saidabout tattooine having effects on the force and it really does make sense. I keep running over the fact that aura sing is there and she did not have a run in with quigon or catch a feeling from anakin and visa versa.

07-17-2001, 06:35 PM
It was mentioned earlier that planets and places are not strong with the force. I have to sisagree. Planets like Korribban, and Dromund Kaas seem to have very strong forc power. For example, Kyle Katarn, in mysteries of the sith, went to the swamp to study a sith temple. The temple swayed him to the dark side! Just the temple! Also the wild Vorksnyrs who live there. They hunt jedi! Why? The planet's sith presence makes them hunt only Jedi. The planet has a tremendous effect on the creatures. Same with Dianogas and Mailocs. Another interesting thing is only the living force makes sith guardian statues come alive. Which brings me to the point of Ysarlmi's. How do they block out the force. I is all so confusing wen you think about it.

Allie_Fox
07-21-2001, 09:04 PM
I tend to agree with what JT said way back. I think the reason Vader did not go down to Tatooine in Star Wars was because he wasn't too concerned about the Death Star. Remember that the Death Star was Tarkin's "Brain Child" and Vader was none too impressed with it.

The planet's effect on the Force is an interesting theory though. Luke once said he would like to be teleported off ". . .this rock." reffering to Tatooine. He also said on his approach to Dagobah that the planet had no technology but, "Massive life form readings though."

If the Force is an energy field created by all living things is it possible that it would be stronger in certain places and weaker in others? Perhaps Obi Wan and Yoda chose Tatooine and Dagobah because the amount of the Force's presence on each planet would help hide them. If Tatooine is nothing but a sand covered rock and the only life on it is the inhabitants would that weaken the Force (or make it less strong)? If Dagobah is teeming with all different types of life would the Force be extra strong there? This would make it easier to train a novice yet aged Jedi in a relatively short period of time wouldn't it?

Someone mentioned the ysilamiri. I feel like the midi-chlorians help explain why these creatures work the way they do. If the midi-chlorians are the ones in tuned to the Force and the ysilamiri can somehow "scramble the signal" before it gets to them then this would keep an ysilamiri user from being effected by the Force.

------------------
CK64200/7
kumi na tano

Ace_Two
07-22-2001, 05:45 PM
O.K. First, I have to say that after all the bickering at the toys forums, I almost gave up on these. Then I stumbled on this discussion. I'm glad to see people discussing topics without fear of having their ego bruised.

All that aside, After reading the posts, I popped in both my Behind The Magic and Episode 1: Insider's Guide CD-Roms, and checked the maps. Naboo and Dagobah are not the same. Dagobah is a little futher away from the deep core than Naboo. Naboo is also closer to Tatooine than Dagobah.

If Vader didn't find it important enough to go to the surface of Tatooine for the DS plans, then why even bother accompanying his troops into the Blockade Runner? Especially when he believed that the plans were in the escape pod. It does make you think.

I also didn't want to know anything about Episode 2 before it came out, but all this is too good :P .

One more thing: I thought that Yoda let out that breath after lifting the X-Wing to emphasize his disappointment with Luke. Am I crazy in that assumption?

JediTricks
07-22-2001, 08:12 PM
Allie, I'm afraid that's not my theory you're quoting, but it is an interesting one.

Ace, I think Vader was more intent upon capturing Leia red-handed being a traitor to the Empire and a rebel spy. After he captures her, he and the Star Destroyer rush off to the Death Star to coerce her to tattle on the rebels, while his troops comb Tatooine for the missing plans. No high-up Imperial seemed to think that the plans were a threat, they seemed to merely be a means to capturing Leia and revealing the rebellion. If that was their motivation, then it's not surprising at all that Vader didn't bother with Tatooine, his real goal was Leia, and through her, the rebellion.

------------------
"Everything we have is on the shelves" - the living nightmare continues

BHC Moderator of POTF2, Galoob, Films, Ep 1, Lego, Classifieds, POTJ
SSG Micro Machines and Lego Editor

Ace_Two
07-22-2001, 09:10 PM
Good point.

I can see how Leia would be a lot more important than plans that were "supposed http://www.collectstarwars.com/ubb/images/icons/tongue.gif" to be easily be retrieved by troopers.

Allie_Fox
07-23-2001, 09:45 AM
JT, I was referring to your guess that Vader was simply too busy to waste time going to the planet's surface to retrive the plans.

The theory is mine. http://www.collectstarwars.com/ubb/images/icons/wink.gif

------------------
CK64200/7
kumi na tano



[This message has been edited by Allie Fox (edited 07-23-2001).]

JediTricks
07-23-2001, 07:14 PM
Oh, ok, glad that got cleared up Allie, I didn't want others to think I came up your idea.

I've always wondered why people think that Tarkin shouldn't have so much more power than Vader, it seems to me like it works with Vader having one immediate boss that's higher in the chain of command - saves having to take any of the blame for when things go wrong.

------------------
"Everything we have is on the shelves" - the living nightmare continues

BHC Moderator of POTF2, Galoob, Films, Ep 1, Lego, Classifieds, POTJ
SSG Micro Machines and Lego Editor