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The_Twisted_Sithster
04-28-2003, 10:49 PM
I have for sale a MOC Toy Fair Vader that has been graded a 90 by AFA. Asking $275 shipped priority (buyer to pay any desired insurance).

One caveat: I actually won't have the piece back in hand for about a week. Here's the scoop: I sent two primo condition Toy Fair Vaders in for grading a few weeks ago. Got them back late last week and one rated a 95 and the other (the one for sale) a 90. However, AFA flubbed and put "25th Anniversary Silver R2-D2" on the labels of both of them, instead of "Darth Vader." I've sent them back to have the labels corrected. However, I have confirmed that the 95 and 90 grades assigned were correct, and only the figure names were done in error. Thus, I WILL be getting back a 95 and a 90 and will have the 90 for sale.

I would rather sell this piece privately, and thus am willing to take a bit less than some AFA90 TF Vaders have been fetching on ebay lately.

If you want some references, I can provide them. You can also look me up under my ebay user name, which is jellyfish7.

Please email me directly if interested. First come, first served. Payment via Paypal preferred (but not required), and buyer does not have to send payment until I have the item back in hand and am ready to ship. Also, if you are interested but would need a little time to pay for the piece, I would certainly try to work out something reasonable and mutually-agreeable in that regard.

Chad

[ 04-30-2003, 12:07 AM: Message edited by: Twisted Sithster ]

this_guy1980
04-29-2003, 01:04 AM
images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/shocked.gif

[ 04-29-2003, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: this_guy1980 ]

The_Twisted_Sithster
04-29-2003, 06:53 AM
Just curious as to what the point of your reply is. I assume that you think the asking price is too high. If so, I can understand that you may not think AFA graded figures should command any sort of premiums, and I can respect that view. However, it is true that my asking price on this is less than several have fetched of late on ebay. In fact, the last one that I saw that was an AFA90 was BIN'd for $349. If you aren't interested in the piece, then move along, but save your eye-rolling for someone else, pal.

Chad

In fact, just to prove I'm not making any of this up, here's a link to the recently completed auction for the $349 BIN:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3127642826&category=2476

Furthermore, well-known collector Bill Wills sold an AFA90 TF Vader earlier in April on ebay for a BIN of $300, and more recently had an AFA85 TF Vader sell for a little over $225, as shown here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3127997724&category=2476

Again, I can appreciate if the AFA thing doesn't appeal to some, and can appreciate the related fact that some people may not wish to spend their hobby resources on such things. If so, that's fine. This post is oriented toward those collectors who may be looking for this piece, and might be interested in a chance to buy it for less than current ebay prices. If you want to lament the whole AFA thing or people who charge more for things than you can afford and/or want to pay, there are certainly a number of threads in other forums on this site in which you can do that.

[ 04-29-2003, 07:09 AM: Message edited by: Twisted Sithster ]

tangfoot
04-29-2003, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by Twisted Sithster:
If you aren't interested in the piece, then move along, but save your eye-rolling for someone else, pal.<font size="2" face="arial">If you can't take the heat, stay out of the forums... images/icons/rolleyes.gif images/icons/shocked.gif

You can't seriously expect not to get any sarcastic replies, can you? images/icons/confused.gif

dustrho
04-29-2003, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by tangfoot:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Twisted Sithster:
[qb]You can't seriously expect not to get any sarcastic replies, can you?<font size="2" face="arial">No kidding.

If you knew you were going to get that kind of reaction, then why would you still try to sell it that high? If you want to get that much for it, then you're better off selling it on eBay. I doubt you're going to get many offers for this item in this forum. Just my $0.02.

The_Twisted_Sithster
04-29-2003, 09:06 AM
The simple answer to these latter questions is that I didn't necessarily expect to get any "heat," as I figured that if people aren't interested, they'd just move along to something that did interest them. However, I should never underestimate the meddlesome self-righteousness of some modern-era collectors. Having my perspective appropriately recalibrated, now, I guess if you all have nothing better to do feel free to pile on. I certainly don't need any of your approval, but will sit back and enjoy the show.

If need be, I will list it on ebay, and if need be, I'll drop the price at a later point (or just decide to hold it for a time until a better sale or trade opportunity comes along). However, I stand by my statement that this price is not insanely out of whack with current "market" for this piece, and actually is a bit below how it has performed recently in this grade. If you can't handle or accept that fact, then I'm sorry for you. And if you're just not interested in it, that's perfectly fine. I don't know what else to say.

But hey, come one misguided, quixotic hobby crusader, come all. Pile on. Sorry I can't justify selling this to you at retail. . . wait a minute, this piece was never even available at retail.

Oh, and BTW Dustrho, I think there's a tinge of hypocrisy about your participation in this thread thus far, as I have seen you respond to people's posts about value in the vintage forum here on RS by telling them that the best gauge of current market value for items is ebay. Well, I checked recent sales of equivalent items on ebay before pricing this particular item, and I went below those current closing bids. So I'm not entirely sure what your big beef here is.

Also, for anyone who may be interested in the piece but thinks this price is a bit high, I'm certainly willing to consider any reasonable counteroffer. I won't give the piece away, but I'm not inflexible. But my understanding of the rules here is that you have to fix a price to post an item for sale. I did that, and will react to responses (or a lack thereof) accordingly.

[ 04-29-2003, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: Twisted Sithster ]

The_Real_Jon
04-29-2003, 09:51 AM
I see no problem with him selling it at this price. Its his item, if you dont want to buy it, you dont have to.

04-29-2003, 10:03 AM
This is why modern collectors get a bad rap... he can sell it for however much he wants. If Chad wants to put a price of $5,000 he has every right to.


(bump)

Dane
04-29-2003, 10:07 AM
his offer isnt that far fetched....


this one is though !!!!


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3120646029&category=751


images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/shocked.gif

_DJ_
04-29-2003, 10:29 AM
images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/shocked.gif images/icons/shocked.gif

$2,500 for a TF Vader just because AFA says it's http://forums.rebelscum.com/ubb/icons/icon58.gif.

Then again, I'm sure someone with that kind of money will buy it. images/icons/rolleyes.gif

Just think of all the stuff you could get with that money......

The_Twisted_Sithster
04-29-2003, 11:13 AM
Wow, I can't believe this simple, straightforward "for sale" post is breaking out into something resembling a substantive discussion/debate--but hey, why not?

Like I've said before, I can understand if some of you don't think this piece is worth this much, and can readily understand if you don't want to buy it. However, I don't think that necessarily justifies you trying to hi-jack this thread with childish eye rolls and the like. If you want to have an open discussion about why the market may countenance such pricing, and if you want to express chagrin at the fact that it seems to be doing so, that's perfectly fine by me. But there are certainly more constructive ways to initiate that type of a discussion that eye rolling graphics and sophomoric cliche's about me not being able to "stand the heat."

Those of you who object to the price I'm asking for this piece can feel free to do so until you're blue in the face. That's certainly your right. And if you must express that in this particular thread, I guess no one is going to stop you. And if your aversions to my asking price prove to reflect the sentiments of the general marketplace, then I will be receptive to that and will respond accordingly. But right now, my objective evaluation of the marketplace has led me to believe this asking price was not "crackheadedly" insane.

Time and time again, people in these forums say if you want to know how much you should pay for an item or if you want to know how much you should ask for an item at a given point in time, then do some research of completed ebay auctions. Well, I did that, and priced this below what similar AFA grades for this piece are fetching recently. Beyond that, I happen to know this about this particular piece (and some of this is certainly elementary hobby knowledge):

The overall packaging design for the TF Vader makes it prone to damage, meaning it's very difficult to find one in nice condition. Even if you can find one without a crushed bubble or a broken or paint-chipped saber, the cardbacks often have scuffing and/or severe surface creasing on the back of the bubble. The primary distribution outlets for these pieces--Toy Fair itself and the fleeting distribution from the Fan Club--did not lend themselves well to a lot of these already fragile pieces reaching collectors in primo condition. In fact, many that were mailed from the Fan Club reached buyers in horrible shape. Thus, all in all, this is a very difficult piece to find in high grade condition in any respect.

Illustrative of this are the TF Vaders that Bill Wills has recently been selling on ebay. From what I understand, Bill got a sealed case of these from an internal Hasbro source (along with a load of modern proto materials). Bill sent a number of these to AFA for grading, and the results demonstrate how hard it is to find a really high-grade one of these. I don't know for certain if any from Bill's case got 95's, a few certainly got 90's (as evidenced by the ones on ebay), several got 85's (again, from what I've seen him posting on ebay), and I think I may have even seen him sell at least one 80 (though I could be wrong about that). So even out of a Hasbro case, specimens of this particular piece never before in general circulation did not automatically get 95's and 100's from AFA.

Now maybe all of this is meaningless to you, b/c you hate the TF Vader and/or you hate AFA'd items in general, and you think the prices they can command are just silly in any event. That's certainly your right to feel that way. However, just b/c you feel that way doesn't mean every other collector out there does. And if some collectors want such items, especially in high grade condition and/or graded by a third-party service, that's their right, and people who have such items for sale have an equal right to try to realize a reasonable "market"-based price for them. You or I may disagree with someone paying some of the prices AFA items fetch, but it's a reality. And I'm just trying to price a piece that I want to sell comfortably in line with that reality (to the extent I can accurately assess the current marketplace).

So all in all, I just don't see what the big deal is here. Are some of you so disgruntled or so bereft of anything better to do?

Chad

Drew724
04-29-2003, 11:21 AM
Chad,

I think it's pretty bad the way people invade other's posts. If you think it's priced too high, then don't buy it.

My question is, why not just pull this now and put it on ebay to avoid what's happening to your post?

The_Twisted_Sithster
04-29-2003, 11:26 AM
My question is, why not just pull this now and put it on ebay to avoid what's happening to your post?

<font size="2" face="arial">I can live with the discussion, and honestly, at this point, I'm really curious to see what replies, if any, the hecklers have to the primary points that have been raised in defense of my original post. I actually think this could be an interesting discussion, if conducted with some modicum of maturity. Although, if all the hecklers can come up with is eyes rolls and playground name-calling, then it probably won't be worth it for much longer.

Beyond that, I'm confident enough that my asking price is sane enough in light of the current market for this particular piece in this condition grade that, notwithstanding this conversational conflagration, this post still might provide a jumping off point for an ultimate off-ebay sale. If I have to resort to ebay, I will, once I get the piece back from AFA with the correct character name on it.

I appreciate the sentiments you expressed, though.

Chad

Drew724
04-29-2003, 11:29 AM
Hopefully the discussion will stay civil.

I second the sentiments above that reactions like this really hurt the reputation of modern collectors!

Good luck selling your item! images/icons/grin.gif

[ 04-29-2003, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: Drew724 ]

tangfoot
04-29-2003, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by Rym:
This is why modern collectors get a bad rap...<font size="2" face="arial">Hear Hear! I think it's hilarious when Modern Collectors harp that an item is "way over-priced"
and that "scalpers are ruining the hobby".


I stand by my previous statement, though. Twisted made that FS post with full knowledge of the possibility of heat, and he has backed up his price accordingly.
I do not doubt that this item is worth what he's asking. I simply question his place of posting a FS ad.

This is pretty much a bargain-basement forum. Collectors help each other out at below-current prices (the majority of the time).

I have made WTB posts looking for high-priced items such as Jorg or TF Vader and have had NO RPEPLIES, at any price!

JohnH
04-29-2003, 02:59 PM
Will someone please tell me what the ****ing point of this forum is? Why is it that a guy can't post an item with a price higher than $4.99 without getting his *** chewed by a bunch of whiney, self-righteous modern collectors? You say that he shouldn't have posted the item if he "expected flak"...first, I don't see where he was expecting these BS replies...all I see is a misquote in tangfoot's first post. And regardless...why the hell should he even expect to get chastised for it in the first place? It's his item, it's his asking price...if you don't like it, MOVE THE **** ALONG!

tangfoot
04-29-2003, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by John, Imperial Aerosol Kid:
You say that he shouldn't have posted the item if he "expected flak"...first, I don't see where he was expecting these BS replies...all I see is a misquote in tangfoot's first post. <font size="2" face="arial">Shouting and swearing isn't going to get your point across any more effectively.

I'm quoting you for two reasons:
(1) I did not say that he should not have posted the item. I said that he should expect sarcastic replies with any item that has that high of a price _in this forum_.

(2) I did not misquote. I edited out the part of his post that had no relevance to my post.


TS brought this "expected flak" upon himself by taking a fellow Scummer to task for rolling his eyes at his FS post. He's done nothing since then to let this die, either...

As I said in my 2nd post, I have no problem with his price, I simply think he's crazy for thinking someone in the Modern Marketplace would pay that price for _ANYTHING_, a night with Princess Leia in that slave outfit not withstanding... images/icons/grin.gif

If you have any further comments to direct toward me, I would prefer if you emailed or PM-ed them directly to me.

slv_1
04-29-2003, 07:19 PM
This is what AFA has done to the hobby. Good luck TS I hope you get the price you are asking. Someone will buy it.

The_Twisted_Sithster
04-29-2003, 08:06 PM
This is what AFA has done to the hobby. <font size="2" face="arial">Look, I'm honestly not trying to prolong this thing more than it needs to be, and I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but since a discussion has erupted already, I'll just ask exactly what you mean by this? And I'm being totally sincere. I'm just not sure what you intend to convey by this.

And FWIW, I'm not big AFA fan or apologist. I've had some suspicions about it myself, as I've expressed in the vintage forum in recent threads, and in all honesty, these are the first two figs I've sent to them, and I'm not necessarily likely to send a ton more anytime soon.

But all of that said, I've become less sure personally, after thinking about it more, that AFA is really to blame for anything in the hobby. In fact, I'm not convinced that anything is really wrong with the hobby, at least as concerns AFA. It seems to me that like all smart businesspeople, they are filling an apparently real demand in some pockets of this and other toy-related hobbies. If people want to buy this stuff, even for "aggressive" prices, what's wrong with that? By the same token, there's certainly nothing wrong with people not wanting to spend their money on that stuff. I guess I'm just unsure why people get so concerned with what other people may be spending their own money on? Really, I just don't get it. Please explain it to me.

Take care.

Chad

04-29-2003, 08:57 PM
Orginally posted by TwistedScalper:
"If people want to buy this stuff, even for "aggressive" prices, what's wrong with that?"

Anyone dumb enough to buy this item, is just as dumb as the person selling it. $275 for a piece of plastic? With no nostaligic value whatsoever! Aggressive Capitalism I'd say. I'm not sure, but you can now buy a computer with that much money nowadays. Probably better off trading this. Whoever buys this, I will personally pay for your trips to a therapist. Oh the insanity.

Jango_Fettish
04-29-2003, 09:18 PM
With no nostaligic value whatsoever!<font size="2" face="arial">That depends on how you collect, to be honest.

Now, as witnessed in my other AFA thread, I am not a big fan of AFA and their services. HOWEVER, if I owned an authentic TF Vader that was graded by AFA, people who actually RESPECT AFA and their services will appreciate the fact that AFA is the authority in graded action figures, therefore the higher the grade, the more value the figure can command, and in some peoples eyes, rightfully so.

You have no choice but to compare prices with eBay when it comes to such a unique item, that bears a high AFA grade.

Anyway, like I said. Only AFA and grading enthusiasts can appreciate their services, and accept that the asking price is merited.

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy it folks, so stop *****ing for once! This can be applied to most everything else, from modern to graded figures. if you don't like it, don't buy it!

As for the "Twisted Scalper" comment, Chad just sold me a Series #4 Unleashed Vader (redemption) for $13 dollars, which is $5 dollars BELOW RETAIL!

An asking price is just that, what he is asking! Besides, a graded figure of this caliber can command a kings ransom in the secondary market.

So, if you're not an enthusiast of AFA, or are just too close-minded to appreciate the finer points of supply and demand, and by that I mean the rarity of a high graded TF Vader, just save your two cents for something worth debating.

04-29-2003, 09:26 PM
I think the fella is just trying to sell his figure. It is his to sell for whatever he wants to ask for it. An item is only worth what people are will to pay, and if people are willing to pay that or more for it on Ebay then it seems to be worth that to them. I don't see the need to get up in arms about this. There is not a single person on these forums that would not sell a figure in a minute for profit if given the right opportunity. If someone came up to you and offered you $100 for your momc Sio Bibble(for example), would you sell it? Most likely. Also, I am willing to bet that at least a few people at RS have probably sold a momc FF US Weequay for A LOT MORE than what they retailed for($5) because they were going for large amounts. It is all part of collecting man.

The_Twisted_Sithster
04-29-2003, 09:30 PM
Anyone dumb enough to buy this item, is just as dumb as the person selling it. <font size="2" face="arial">Wow, thanks for sharing this insight. It really added a lot to the debate, and really makes me appreciate your perspective and generally feel bad about myself. No one stand too close to this guy, or the brain waves he's radiating may cause at least minor skin irritation. (Although I must say that the "Twisted Scalper" comment is mildly amusing and borderline clever--absolutely false, but clever.)

With that said, though, I want to be clear that I'm not saying there isn't valid room for disagreement on these issues, and I'm honestly interested in hearing other perspectives at this point, although I would hope that you would come up with something more substantive than this guy (although, I guess I should be thankful that he spared me the eye rolls, huh?).

Chad

BTW: Thanks Cory for chiming in. I appreciate that and hope you enjoy the Unleashed piece. And good luck continuing to build the Jango collection.

this_guy1980
04-29-2003, 09:49 PM
Hey, I didnt mean anything by the faces. Thats actually a decent price for it being AFA graded and all. I was just kind of amazed that someone was selling one and not trying to rip people off.

I have seen some outrageous prices on stuff and dont think you are being unreasonable. Sorry if I started anything. I dont agree with the others for thrashing your post though.

Dirty_Sith
04-29-2003, 09:58 PM
I see it this way. If you are not intending to buy this figure for the price he is asking then why are you wasting time posting on this thread. Do you normally watch a TV show that you hate? The ones complaining are making complete ***** of your selves and need to get a clue. You are just hating because you do not have a toy fair vader and bash those who do. You are resentful because of your misfortune and what can I say besides misery loves company. To the one selling this figure, I would love to buy this from you for the price you are asking. It is not because I dislike the price you are asking but because I just don't have the cash. $100 Is the highest I could go without the wife going nuts on me. Well good luck selling him and pay no mind to the whiny complainers that this board harbors. Remember the srupid blue coat brown coat debate? Nuff said... images/icons/grin.gif

The_Twisted_Sithster
04-29-2003, 09:58 PM
Hey, I didnt mean anything by the faces. Thats actually a decent price for it being AFA graded and all. I was just kind of amazed that someone was selling one and not trying to rip people off.

I have seen some outrageous prices on stuff and dont think you are being unreasonable. Sorry if I started anything. I dont agree with the others for thrashing your post though.
<font size="2" face="arial">Hey, listen, I greatly appreciate you speaking up like that, and I'm really sorry if I was jumpy and edgy and misunderstood your responsive post. The images/icons/rolleyes.gif threw me. Had you stuck to the images/icons/shocked.gif , I probably would have assumed a different message. At any rate, my bad.

Despite what anyone may conclude for themselves, my intent is absolutely not to rip anyone off. I'm just trying to get what I consider a decent and fair price on a not exactly common piece (considering condition as well as the nature of the item), and in the process am trying to offer what I believe is a better deal than ebay to anyone here who might be interested. That's all. But if people here aren't receptive to that offer, okay, so be it.

Again, man, I'm sorry if I was hasty and jerkish towards you.

Chad

Huff
04-29-2003, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by tangfoot:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="arial">Originally posted by Rym:
This is why modern collectors get a bad rap...<font size="2" face="arial">This is pretty much a bargain-basement forum. Collectors help each other out at below-current prices (the majority of the time).</font>[/QUOTE]<font size="2" face="arial">I agree with that statement 100%. Most of the stuff I've sold on here has been way below what I paid for and it's stuff that's not even on the shelves anymore. I've had emails saying $4 for a $7 figure was too high. images/icons/confused.gif

I don't mind helping fellow collectors out but I'm not going to give stuff away. As far as that TF Vader, I would definately take it to ebay.

I didn't mean to intrude on your post but from my own experience of selling stuff on here, tangfoot hit the nail right smack on the head. images/icons/smile.gif

dustrho
04-29-2003, 10:25 PM
Originally posted by Dirty Sith:
The ones complaining are making complete ***** of your selves and need to get a clue. You are just hating because you do not have a toy fair vader and bash those who do.<font size="2" face="arial">I certainly hope that I'm not one of those people you're referring to with the above statement. I am definitely not trying to bash the seller... I just thought the price was kinda high. Yes, I have given advice about using eBay as a price guide for buying things, but when this figure only cost $12 less than one year ago I thought the seller was selling it for just a bit too much.

I do own a TF Vader. I bought it because I thought it was cool, and I don't plan on selling it. Usually when people buy current figures and sell them for a very, very high price most people would call that "scalping." I'm not saying that Twisted Sithster is doing that here.

I hope that he gets what he wants for it. I'm not here to attack people. It's an open forum and that means free speech (to an extent, of course), so I was just giving my $0.02. I wish you the best of luck selling this fine figure. I'm sure someone will give him a happy home.

04-29-2003, 10:32 PM
I don't even know what the hell a Toy Fair Vadar is to begin with. Never seen a picture of it, but I've heard of it. It's a little 3/34 action figure, painted silver or something, not even real silver I bet. If it was Gold, I'd buy it....lol. But I am not jealous because I don't have one, wouldn't even buy it is it was $5. It's a concept figure. I hate those. I don't know if this guy is a scalper or not...but judging from everyones response this thing is in fact worth what he's selling. But I'd never buy it, and I agree that exlcusives like this figure does spoil the hobby. Because Hasbro will notice that collectors will pay an arm and a leg for these things. So they'll make everything "exclusive" soon. Hasbro produces exlcusives every month it seems...doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose?

Jango_Fettish
04-29-2003, 10:46 PM
Just a note that may be of some justification.

Assume that he got the TF Vader from the NY Toy Fare. Also assume that he doesn't live in N.Y., and actually had a good bit of expenses to fund the trip? Now, I am not too certain as to who had access to such an event, but expenses are always something to take into consideration, such was the case with Jorg Sacul. They had to pay their way to Indianapolis, and into the event.

On the other hand, say it was bought for $12 through the Fan Club. He decided he wanted it graded, and put it up in the secondary market. People can do whatever they want with their figs, guys. Free will is a beautiful thing. It graded high, so it must be a very solid mint figure, which just demands a higher price tag. Even if it wasn't graded, a mint, ungraded version will always sell for more than a loose version?! The only difference is a hundred dollars or so.

Chew on this. If you renovate your home inside and out, are you going to cheat yourself out of thousands of dollars by selling it for what you paid for it? Nope. You can almost apply the same principal when it comes to graded figures. You know it is worth something, it's desirable, it's rare, so why not?

Besides, say T.S. gets $250 for the figure. You could probably rest assured he's going to pump that money RIGHT BACK INTO STAR WARS MERCH! Is that so bad?

Just remember, something is only worth what you are willing to pay for it. Just because it carries a high price tag, doesn't mean it's being scalped. Nobody knows the circumstances as to how it was obtained and where the funds will go for sure. If something can command a certain price, why deny yourself of the chance to make some profit? Everyone in our hobby needs money, thats a given. So, instead of close minded speculation, just simply wish him good luck in selling it, and move on.

The_Twisted_Sithster
04-29-2003, 10:51 PM
[B]ut when this figure only cost $12 less than one year ago I thought the seller was selling it for just a bit too much.

I do own a TF Vader. I bought it because I thought it was cool, and I don't plan on selling it. Usually when people buy current figures and sell them for a very, very high price most people would call that "scalping." I'm not saying that Twisted Sithster is doing that here.
<font size="2" face="arial">This is kind of unfair, don't you think? The old, "I'm not explicitly saying you're a scalper but. . ." trick.

Sure, TF Vaders were available twice, I believe, through the American FC for about 1 hour each time earlier last year. Those who got through on the first batch (and there were few) got them for $13 or so if they were FC members, or $15 otherwise. Many of these arrived to their buyers damaged. To my understanding, those sold by the FC in the second batch were badly damaged damaged to begin with, and were likely just a handful that were held back as non-collector grade during the first sale (and/or were returned after being sold the first time b/c they arrived in poor condition). On top of this, there is the fact that this particular piece was produced in far fewer numbers than virtually any other production-scale piece in the modern line (perhaps fewer than any save the upcoming Mexican exclusive silver Fett).

So, it's not at all fair, IMO, to equate this piece with a standard production piece. And the fact is that even if your analogy was more apt, this item certainly isn't available "at retail" anywhere now (at least not in North America), and really was never available "at retail" in the US to begin with--at least not in the customary sense. So if what I'm doing is scalping by anyone's definition, then it's a pretty narrow, inflexible definition.

Am I trying to make a little money on this piece to help cover to a small degree some other hobby purchases that I've made lately--yep. But I'm not trying to make a killing, to be sure. And I didn't buy this one originally with the express intent of selling it for more down the road, as you assumptively insinuate. I just happened to get a slight upgrade (the one that has rated an AFA95) for a liveable price (though not by the standards of some here--it wasn't $12, let me assure you), quite out of the blue and without even really actively looking for it.

Once I got the second, slightly nicer piece, I decided to have them both graded. Did I have this one graded on the chance that it might increase the resale price. Yep, I sure did. If that, coupled with what would have been my unwillingness to sell it for $12 even if I hadn't had it graded, makes me a "hobby criminal" in the eyes of some of you, then so be it.

If you can find anyone, anywhere to sell you or anyone else a C9.5 MOC TF Vader at this point in time (forget the AFA grade--just a C9.5 in a star case) for anything under $175, more power to you. And if you can find anyone to sell you an AFA90 or higher version of this piece at this point in time for less than $250, even more power to you. You should take that deal, IMO.

Chad

EDIT: By the way, I just want to make it clear that I'm using the proverbial universal "you" in that last paragraph. That certainly wasn't directed at dustrho specifically, as I realize from his post that he already has this particular piece, and assumedly wouldn't be in the market for another (at least at prevailing "secondary market" prices).

[ 04-29-2003, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: Twisted Sithster ]

The_Twisted_Sithster
04-29-2003, 10:58 PM
I agree that exlcusives like this figure does spoil the hobby. Because Hasbro will notice that collectors will pay an arm and a leg for these things. So they'll make everything "exclusive" soon. Hasbro produces exlcusives every month it seems...doesn't that kinda defeat the purpose? <font size="2" face="arial">For what it's worth, I agree with you wholeheartedly here. For years, I used to collect the entire POTF2 line, along with vintage. Now I only collect Vader items and I've sold off pretty much all of my non-Vader modern era stuff. One of the huge reasons I abandoned the modern line was the stunts Hasbro pulled with exclusive items. And it was bad enough when you had to go to a certain store chain to find something. But with this Vader piece, you couldn't even do that. I literally about had a stroke when I found out about this piece and how it was (and wasn't being distributed). And I really feel for all of the collectors out there who are going to get shafted by that convention Fett piece. If you think prices on this Vader piece are insane, wait until that thing hits the secondary market.

Chad

Saboth
04-29-2003, 11:26 PM
I barely made it through all the negativity of the thread to get to this point, but here goes:

I'd be interested in the figure, I wish it wasn't AFA graded to hike up the price even more though! Still, it's one I want, it's one I didn't get, and I can (possibly! LOL) afford it. If that makes me stupid or not informed on how much it's "worth" in your estimation, how about that someone sells me his/hers for 12 bucks? images/icons/grin.gif

tangfoot
04-30-2003, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by jester:
I am willing to bet that at least a few people at RS have probably sold a momc FF US Weequay for A LOT MORE than what they retailed for...<font size="2" face="arial">Hell, I'm considering buying the TF Vader here just to post it to Ebay for $75 profit... images/icons/grin.gif

JoshEEE
04-30-2003, 02:16 PM
Ah yes. I love it when a classified ad turns into a debate on free enterprise, AFA, or something else totally unrelated.

Well Twisted Sithster, if you haven't sold it by now, you might want to try Ebay. You probably won't get 20 responses asking you WHY you would dare to want a profit on this thing.

You'd probably just get bids from some person who actually cares about AFA stats.

images/icons/grin.gif

slv_1
04-30-2003, 02:22 PM
Its the fact that its a hobby. These are toys we are collecting not jewels or artwork(although some of the figures are a work of art images/icons/smile.gif ). I feel that if you need to send your figures out for someone to tell you where they stand on a grading scale it shows that you are in this for the money. I am not saying that you are in it for the money one bit. If I were to sell the TF Vader that I have I would not send it to AFA first. IMO people that collect graded figures are not in this for the fun of it. I collect vintage and modern. I have left figures that I have wanted on the pegs because of flaws on the card or bubble. My grading scale works great for me. I buy the figure, When I get home with it I put it in a star case. I am happy that way. I could send 99% of my collection to AFA and get 90 or better. Why would I waste the time and money?
Chad if you are happy with graded figures more power to ya. I'm sure you must have a nice collection. We all collect our own way.
I am glad that we are talking about this like adults. Most others would get all bent out of shape about this topic.
Peace and Happy collecting.
Chris

The_Twisted_Sithster
04-30-2003, 03:24 PM
Chad if you are happy with graded figures more power to ya. I'm sure you must have a nice collection. We all collect our own way.
I am glad that we are talking about this like adults. Most others would get all bent out of shape about this topic.
<font size="2" face="arial">Slv-1: First off, I echo your sentiments about the preferrability of civil discourse. These are interesting and rather important issues within our hobby about which reasonable people can disagree without being thoroughly insulting to one another.

FWIW, I'm not really a die-hard AFA fan or anything, as I've said before--these were the first figs I've ever sent to them. For some reason or set of reasons, I just decided that a really high-end version of this particular piece would be kind of cool to have graded and displayed in one of those neat cases.

But I can readily understand why some people wouldn't ever send in any figure, whether it was the one they intended to sell or the one they intended to keep. As for the one that I'm selling, I certainly realized that by having it graded, I would be foreclosing interest from that portion of the hobby market that doesn't like AFA. I just made a calculation that in the end, I could probably get a better price for it by making it cater to those AFA-lovers among us.

At any rate, I appreciate your sharing your personal thoughts on the AFA thing. Despite what some others may have said in this thread, I don't think it's at all a bad thing in the grand scheme that some of these discussions have broken out in this thread. I wasn't so keen on it at first, but as it's turned out, it's been interesting, to say the least.

As for this piece that I'm wanting to sell, I'm pretty confident of selling it sooner or later, here or elsewhere. It's a very nice piece, I'm not asking nearly as much as some would (and are), and like it or not boys and girls at home, there are quite a few people in the hobby market at large who want third-party graded items at this time, especially condition-sensitive or tamper-prone items (though it's a fair point that many of them may frequent ebay far more frequently than this place). I don't necessarily feel a need personally to have all my stuff graded (FWIW, I would have called my two TF Vaders a C9.5/C9.5+ and a C10-, which is pretty much what AFA has said), but some people certainly do, good or bad.

Take care.

Chad

EDIT: The only thing I would add to this, slv-1, upon further reflection, is that I think we should all be a little more careful about the sweeping assumptions we make about the motivations of "everyone else" in the hobby who may do things a different way than ourselves. Statements like "people who only collect graded figures are just in it for the money" are probably not accurate across the board, to be fair. There are some pretty respectable and seemingly dedicated and sincere collectors who have made persuasive pro-AFA arguments in various threads in other forums on this site of late, and I for one would be loathe to discount them as shallow opportunists and/or people who don't know how to grade for themselves.

Just some food for thought. But in any event, I do appreciate your sharing your thoughts, and I think there are probably a lot of people in the hobby who readily agree with your perspective.

[ 04-30-2003, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: Twisted Sithster ]

Saboth
04-30-2003, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by Saboth:
I barely made it through all the negativity of the thread to get to this point, but here goes:

I'd be interested in the figure, I wish it wasn't AFA graded to hike up the price even more though! Still, it's one I want, it's one I didn't get, and I can (possibly! LOL) afford it. If that makes me stupid or not informed on how much it's "worth" in your estimation, how about that someone sells me his/hers for 12 bucks? images/icons/grin.gif <font size="2" face="arial">Take two?

The_Twisted_Sithster
04-30-2003, 08:06 PM
Sorry, Saboth. I assumed that if that last post of yours was serious, you'd email me directly. When I didn't hear from you, I concluded that you either weren't entirely serious, or you changed your mind if you were. At any rate, I apologize if I neglected serious interest on your part. I have sent you a PM, and invite you to contact me directly if you want to follow up. Take care.

Chad

this_guy1980
04-30-2003, 08:28 PM
Its cool, I honestly didnt even realize I had put the images/icons/rolleyes.gif face in it, I meant to only put the images/icons/shocked.gif face. Anyways I apologize if I started anything. I have always been one of the people telling others to mind their own business and not ruin posts and have had my threads screwed up so I know what its like. I have complained to the Mods and nothing has been done yet images/icons/confused.gif

slv_1
05-01-2003, 12:12 AM
Originally posted by Twisted Sithster:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="arial"> This is what AFA has done to the hobby. <font size="2" face="arial">Look, I'm honestly not trying to prolong this thing more than it needs to be, and I'm not trying to be sarcastic, but since a discussion has erupted already, I'll just ask exactly what you mean by this? And I'm being totally sincere. I'm just not sure what you intend to convey by this.

And FWIW, I'm not big AFA fan or apologist. I've had some suspicions about it myself, as I've expressed in the vintage forum in recent threads, and in all honesty, these are the first two figs I've sent to them, and I'm not necessarily likely to send a ton more anytime soon.

But all of that said, I've become less sure personally, after thinking about it more, that AFA is really to blame for anything in the hobby. In fact, I'm not convinced that anything is really wrong with the hobby, at least as concerns AFA. It seems to me that like all smart businesspeople, they are filling an apparently real demand in some pockets of this and other toy-related hobbies. If people want to buy this stuff, even for "aggressive" prices, what's wrong with that? By the same token, there's certainly nothing wrong with people not wanting to spend their money on that stuff. I guess I'm just unsure why people get so concerned with what other people may be spending their own money on? Really, I just don't get it. Please explain it to me.

Take care.

Chad </font>[/QUOTE]<font size="2" face="arial">I am not busting on you one bit man. I am saying that the whole AFA thing has gotten out of control. I do not like it for the hobby. Thats my opinion. Again good luck with the figure I hope you sell it.

The_Twisted_Sithster
05-01-2003, 12:17 AM
I am not busting on you one bit man. I am saying that the whole AFA thing has gotten out of control. I do not like it for the hobby. Thats my opinion <font size="2" face="arial">I understood you weren't busting on me, and I appreciate that and your well-wishing about me trying to sell the figure. But I was honestly just wondering--since this whole discussion has occurred anyway--why exactly you think AFA is hurting the hobby.

I'm not saying there's no valid reason to feel that way, and I'll admit that I've waffled a lot lately on this issue. So I'm just wondering why you believe that to be the case. I'd like to hear your reasons, just for the hell of it.

If you don't want to go to the effort of offering them, that's fine. No one can force you, to be sure. I'd just be interested to hear them, and at least some others might as well, while we're at all of this.

In any event, take care.

Chad

[ 04-30-2003, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: Twisted Sithster ]

05-01-2003, 05:22 PM
I am interested in your darth vader figure, please email me @russdogandtabbi@adelphia.net. Thanks

The_Twisted_Sithster
05-01-2003, 07:40 PM
SithKrell:

I greatly appreciate the interest. However, I have tentatively accepted a purchase offer on it, pending the buyer's final approval upon seeing pix once I have it back from AFA (which should be very soon). If that deal doesn't go through, for some odd reason, I will contact you before listing it on ebay. Again, I appreciate your interest.

Chad

damageinc
05-02-2003, 06:05 PM
Holy sh*t that is the most f*ckin ironic thing ever, the guy who's first post started this whole dumbarse argument wasn't even against the sale. HAHAHAHAH DAMN thats funny, what a bunch of morons. images/icons/smile.gif images/icons/rolleyes.gif images/icons/tongue.gif

The_Twisted_Sithster
05-02-2003, 06:39 PM
Holy sh*t that is the most f*ckin ironic thing ever, the guy who's first post started this whole dumbarse argument wasn't even against the sale. HAHAHAHAH DAMN thats funny, what a bunch of morons. <font size="2" face="arial">Honestly, no, it's not the most ironic thing ever--but it is sort of ironic, I guess, so kudos to you for pointing that out.

But if you want to dismissively call a bunch of people "morons" in writing in public, you might want to brush up on your grammar skills a bit first (just a friendly suggestion). Learn what an independent clause is--it can be your friend. I promise, even James Hetfield knows what one is.

Chad