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View Full Version : Posting guidelines hurt vintage collectors



cfawcett
02-28-2001, 06:29 AM
Well, after being shut down on two separate forums for posting my stuff for sale, I felt I needed to address some issues. I feel that the posting rules in this forum really do a disservice to vintage collectors. It seems the rules are in place to stop various questionable activities in the new-toy market, but these same rules hurt vintage collectors hoping to buy and sell here.

For example, the requirement that you *must* list the items available and must list a sale price. The problem with this is that many times in vintage buying and selling things need to be kept out of the public record or the seller wants to control who has access to the list of for sale items. In the example of my last post, the person who previously owned the items for sale asked that they not be shown publicly online.

Secondly, the "prices must indicate fair market value" rule is silly for vintage. The prices fluctuate a lot, anyone can see this on Ebay. And what's wrong with someone coming on and posting "Lobot figure loose for sale: $300". The worst that would happen is that the vintage crowd would educate the guy on his piece and he'll figure out what it's really worth. It seems this rule is made up to hinder scalping, but since scalping is impossible in vintage collecting it really should not be applied to vintage selling. The other point of this rule is that the "moderators will use their judgement" to decide what's fair. If any of the moderators can tell me what the going rate on a Droids Jessica Meade 20-back proof card is (something that is on my current list), I'd love to hear it. And this is not to say that the moderators are ignorant, but that there are some things which simply cannot be "priced" because there is no history of a past sale to base a current market value on. The only way to get a true value for this kind of piece is an auction.

Which brings me to my last point. Auctions are forbidden. Now I can totally understand not wanting 100 Ebay links posted everyday - so why not just outlaw ebay links, not auctions all together? What's wrong with someone posting "12-b Boba Fett - sold to the highest offer"?

So, what should be done? I understand the rules - for new toys they work. Maybe a new vintage FS/T section needs to be put up with rules more applicable to vintage selling and trading. Maybe vintage items should be allowed to be posted for sale in the vintage discussion group. I don't know.

All I do know is that I won't be posting any more FS posts like I did early this week on this forum because I will abide by the rules, and I cannot post the information I need to post within the rules structure. So, would the vintage collector be better off not even having the opportunity at some of these items? I would think most of them would rather have the chance at them than not. In that way, these rules are hurting vintage collectors because they hinder the reasonable selling of vintage items.

Cj


[This message has been edited by cfawcett (edited 02-28-2001).]

02-28-2001, 07:31 AM
If you want to auction them so badly, then why don't you put them up on eBay? Having the stricter guidelines here helps to protect potential buyers from getting screwed. And as far as the person you got these items from requesting you not post them items on the internet, it is not going to help your cause any-you could probably understand how that might sound a little strange to somebody.

cfawcett
02-28-2001, 07:41 AM
> If you want to auction them so badly,
> then why don't you put them up on eBay?

I'm not auctioning these, they are simply for sale. I was just posting about auctions because I don't understand why they are banned. What's wrong with auctions?

> Having the stricter guidelines here
> helps to protect potential buyers
> from getting screwed.

Please explain how the rules I was questioning help the vintage collector to not get screwed.

> you could probably understand how that > might sound a little strange to somebody.

If you had worked at Kenner and were afraid of legal repercussions for selling the items you took home from work (even though you were allowed to take them at the time), you might be a little skittish about public for sale postings too.

Cj

02-28-2001, 08:29 AM
1. You were the one that said you wanted to auction them. In my opinion nothing is wrong with eBay-I use it quite often.

2. Having these rules protects buyers so they have a lot better idea of EXACTLY what they are getting.

3. My point exactly

cfawcett
02-28-2001, 09:12 AM
> 1. You were the one that said you wanted
> to auction them.

Where did I say that?

> In my opinion nothing is wrong with
> eBay-I use it quite often.

So, then why are auctions banned here?

> 2. Having these rules protects buyers
> so they have a lot better idea of
> EXACTLY what they are getting.

What is the difference between posting a list here with prices, or me emailing it to them privately? How does posting the list here make them know better exactly what they're getting?

> 3. My point exactly

I still am missing your point on this. Please clarify.

BTW, are you a moderator or someone otherwise involved in this web page? That's who I would really like to hear from involving the rules (not that other opinions aren't worthwhile.) Don't know if you are or not.

Also, do you collect mainly vintage or POTF2?

Cj


[This message has been edited by cfawcett (edited 02-28-2001).]

02-28-2001, 09:46 AM
First, I am not a moderator, I just figured I would try to help clarify what the moderators have been posting in reply to your earlier posts. I wasnt quoting you about wanting to auction, but everything you post hints around the fact that you want to auction(Im not trying to put words in your mouth) As far as no auctions allowed here, that is one for the Moderators to handle, but I would imagine that its point is to deter Scalpers and the like(Not saying you are either). Also, posts have been made in the past about proofs,etc. without any problems-nobody is asking for your source's Name or contact info, and there are probably thousands of ex-kenner/hasbro employees who have done the same. Maybe this answers some of your questions, if not
cue Moderator

cfawcett
02-28-2001, 10:03 AM
> Also, posts have been made in the
> past about proofs,etc. without
> problems-nobody is asking for your
> source's Name or contact info, and
> there are probably thousands of > ex-kenner/hasbro employees who have
> done the same.

Yeah, but when a source *specifically* asks you not to post a public sale, then you resepct their wishes - whether you agree with them or not.

Cj

Philbirt
02-28-2001, 11:44 AM
Chris, I think I agree with you on this one. What's wrong with 'sold to the highest offer' in the forums? You're right about ebay links too-they should never be allowed.
With certain vintage items becoming so hard to find (even on ebay), it would be nice to find them here in the forums, including the vintage section.
Phil

Jeffrey_Correll
02-28-2001, 12:20 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing a seperate vintage classifieds section, and because the aspects of vintage are different then potf2 why shouldn't the rules be different to fit the needs of vintage collecting.

Though I see why most of these precautions are taken when dealing with potf2. I think alot of collector's would agree with Chris's points. Selling some loose vintage figures or carded potf2 stuff is alot different then selling rare items and prototypes.

Just my 2 cents,

Jeff

02-28-2001, 02:12 PM
Hello CJ,

I would like to apologize for the seemingly strict rules. The guidelines have been set to serve all collectors and because of this, must remain consistent. We do understand that scalping and modern market guidelines do not apply to vintage and we do not hold the same stricter "retail" controls that we apply with newer items.

The Collectors Guild has been created for the sole purpose of folks "helping each other out". It really wasn't meant as a pure marketplace, therefore we need to apply stricter controls so that everyone plays fair. To accomodate this, we discourage "bidding" for the highest price and overt profiteering. (This is not targeted directly at you CJ because I have the utmost respect for what you have contributed to the hobby.) It's sad that we do have to go to these extremes and be inflexible at times, but Star Wars collecting has it's "dark side".

We do understand the "sensibilities" involved with rarer vintage pieces and protoypes. But it would be extemely unfair to members of this board who have been abiding by the guidelines we have set and agreed upon. This model has been successful thus far for the fairness and consistency we have accomplished...although its far from perfect, as Im sure you can attest. When posting Classifieds we do require a stated price and a listing of the items to avoid potential scalping, profiteering, and gouging. People posting their auctions are also discouraged for this same reason. I know you mean well CJ and are a respected member of the community, but what about someone else with more unscrupulous intentons? We also try to avoid any legal hassles because of the fact that this is a public board and one where anyone can gain access. That's the reason we prohibit the sale of bootleg and unlicensed merchandise.

CJ, I know our system isnt perfect and can cause a disadvantage to certain people because of the stricter rules involved. But if we can open up discussion with the other members of the board, perhaps we can come to a consensus on this issue. I'd also like to hear other options we can pursue so that we can have a Trading/Classifieds board that can be more effective but also fair and consistent throughout. These Forums serves its members so I'd like to hear from everyone on how they feel about this. If the Guidelines need to be ammended, then we will do so with the mandate of it's members.

I'm also going to move this thread to Wuher's Cantina, where the majority of our members hang out and since the Classifieds were not meant for posts of this nature. Also feel free to email me or anyone of the moderators for discussion outside the boards.


BP

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