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Thread: Price Check: Not as Described 12 Back

  1. #1
    High Admiral SF1138's Avatar
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    Jul 2011

    Price Check: Not as Described 12 Back

    Hello! I am in a bit of a quandry right now. I paid a premium for a 12 Back Vader with No dents, Dings or Cracks to the bubble with a nice card and figure with great paint apps. I got a figure with a near impeccable card minor vein on rear just above the figure which doesn't break through to front. The bubble has crushing on the lower right, but worse, it has a 1/4" hairline crack in the bubble stem.

    If I hadn't paid fair market value for an 80 (hoping it could be an 85 but still at least an 80), it wouldn't be a huge deal. I am debating about following through with a claim through paypal since the seller doesn't think it was his fault since he didn't see any damage when it shipped. (insured but no damage to boxes). The original photos omitted the lower right corner and shadows seem to indicate the original dent was there. The oversight on the stem crack is common, due to its location.

    The oil stains to the cape aren't a huge deal, but also apparent (anyone seen this before, is it correctable?)

    Now that it is confirmed as a crack and would be an overall AFA70 tops, what type of value would this have? I hate this, but it is what it is. Thoughts?






    Original pic from seller showing a little reflection lower corner, but not a clear shot of damage
    Last edited by SF1138; 03-18-2014 at 06:37 PM.

  2. #2
    Lieutenant
    Join Date
    Mar 2012

    If I were in your shoes and didn't want the piece any more, I would file a claim through Paypal and get my money back. The seller's original picture is at just the right angle that it is difficult to see the damage to the card. Intentional? Hard to say but not completely unheard of. I have run into many sellers on ebay who intentionally use this tactic to hide damage in plain sight. I cannot help but wonder if the box wasn't damaged and the packing was sufficient, then how did the bubble get crushed?

    As far as value in present condition, I will refrain from speculation since I have not been watching 12-back prices lately and they seem to fluctuate greatly depending on the phase of the moon.
    - Shawn

  3. #3
    High Admiral SF1138's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011

    Quote Originally Posted by fishtafari View Post
    If I were in your shoes and didn't want the piece any more, I would file a claim through Paypal and get my money back. The seller's original picture is at just the right angle that it is difficult to see the damage to the card. Intentional? Hard to say but not completely unheard of. I have run into many sellers on ebay who intentionally use this tactic to hide damage in plain sight. I cannot help but wonder if the box wasn't damaged and the packing was sufficient, then how did the bubble get crushed?

    As far as value in present condition, I will refrain from speculation since I have not been watching 12-back prices lately and they seem to fluctuate greatly depending on the phase of the moon.
    That's the way I was leaning. I've been avoiding buying stuff to resell, but if I had to keep it a crack is a killer for me. I phrased it as maybe you missed this damage, since the shipping boxes were virtually unharmed... Thanks for the input!

  4. #4
    Moff Bill_McBride's Avatar
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    May 2001

    It's a great piece, but a lot of people would be put off by that bubble. (def. a
    deal breaker for me). Certainly not worth any type of premium price.

    Bill
    Buying Rare and Unusual Darth Vader Items; Vintage and New
    Check out The Darth Vader Toy Museum at: www.sithtoys.com

  5. #5
    Fleet Admiral Warped's Avatar
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    May 2012
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    US

    There appears to be only one AFA 70 12 back Vader that's sold over the last 90 days, and it was a OBO that went for less than the $855 asking price. More examples of AFA 75s, they seem to range in the low 900 range. Best guess graded? 750-800ish? Who knows these days though.

    If you were thinking about getting it graded and flipping it, I'd almost think this is one of those times where you'd get more for it ungraded since that crack knocks it down so much. Other than that issue with the bubble, your pics make it look like a pretty amazing carded Vader.

    If you don't want to take that chance, I'd probably lean towards returning it for a refund.
    Last edited by Warped; 03-18-2014 at 06:55 PM.

  6. #6
    High Admiral Kenner76's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
    Location
    Minnesota

    I'd file a claim though Paypal while you can. I made the mistake once of not filing one in a case with poor packaging and a damaged item, I later regretted keeping it was stuck with the less than perfect item.
    Wanted: Jawa 12 back or 20 back proofs, pre-production Boushh, textured cape Leia, and anything Jessica Meade. I'm also looking for 1st shots of the "First 20". I have cash and many great trade items!
    My Feedback:http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1070625/

  7. #7
    Admiral Gonk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004

    I thought a crack in that location didn't hit the grade too hard? I agree the seller was wrong to say no cracks with it there, still, I'm not sure it's such a bad thing right there. But, if he also said no dings or dents... well, that's obviously demonstrably false and I would definitely expect my money back.

    As far as oil stains on the cape ... never heard of that. Could this be the "rot" issue I was having with at least two of my sandpeople? (See here: rotting/melting capes on sand people? Is that normal?)

  8. #8
    Moff finestcomics's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010

    With that kind of damage, I would be very surprised if it graded higher than a 60, and because of the damage plus the separation/detachment from the bottom it could go as low as a 50. I had a killer MOC similar to this, unpunched tab, virtually flawless except for damage to the stem in a similar location (just the other side of the stem) and AFA prescreened it for me and they told me it would grade a 50.

    I'm looking closely at the "before shipped" photo and it's really difficult to see the damage there, but in restrospect, it's a flattering angle to photograph the item given the damage that's visible now.

  9. #9
    Lieutenant Commander
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Florida

    By posting this I think it's obvious that you will never be fully happy with the piece. Can't say I blame you. It is hard to tell if the bubble was damaged in his photo but regardless you didn't get the item as it was described. Either way, (his fault, or shippers) you still can get your money back if you file a claim.

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