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Thread: How should the "i am your father plot twist" have been kept a secret in the prequels?

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    How should the "i am your father plot twist" have been kept a secret in the prequels?

    Should it have been kept a secret in the prequels, even? Doesn't everybody know that Darth Vader is Luke Skywalker's father? And, wasn't the whole point of the prequels to show how Anakin Skywalker, the young Jedi hero, transforms himself into the evil tyrant Darth Vader?Either way, it would have been pretty cool, and some would say it would even preserve the plot twist for the future generations of us younglings (no pun intended, liar liar!) Star Wars Fans. Let's also debate about that one too!Here's how I would have done it. And, remember, there is no right or wrong answer to this thread. This is all about speculation and hypothethicals.I wouldn't have shown Anakin being named Vader, and, I wouldn't have shown Sidious rescuing him from the lava and putting him into the robot suit later on. Maybe the audience could have been given the impression that Anakin could have died in the lava, and Vader was just one of his new apprentices, just like how Count Dooku replaced Maul and how Anakin replaced Dooku, and how Luke almost replaced Anakin in ROTJ.Or maybe the suited Vader should have led the march on the Jedi temple, possibly.Feel free to speculate on this thread. All ideas will be appreciated.

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    Sith Lord Revanfan1's Avatar
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    But Luke says in ROTJ, "You were once Anakin Skywalker, my father." Therefore, it was known from the first scene in TPM he was named.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revanfan1 View Post
    But Luke says in ROTJ, "You were once Anakin Skywalker, my father." Therefore, it was known from the first scene in TPM he was named.
    That's true. But that doesn't contradict what I said earlier. Fans of the OT that watch the prequel trilogy after they watch the originals would know that secret of Vader-Luke's blood relationship.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Borderlands View Post
    That's true. But that doesn't contradict what I said earlier. Fans of the OT that watch the prequel trilogy after they watch the originals would know that secret of Vader-Luke's blood relationship.
    Well, I do see what you're saying, but that's not what they were meant to be. The PT was telling "the story of Darth Vader." That's why it had to show Anakin become Vader. The OT was meant to be viewed first, and IMO any newcomers to Star Wars should undoubtedly watch the OT before the PT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revanfan1 View Post
    Well, I do see what you're saying, but that's not what they were meant to be. The PT was telling "the story of Darth Vader." That's why it had to show Anakin become Vader. The OT was meant to be viewed first, and IMO any newcomers to Star Wars should undoubtedly watch the OT before the PT.
    This might turn into a debate over revisionism, which I think it has already. And, that's fine, I have no problem whatsoever (and I actually enjoy) with a nice productive and intelligent debate/conversation. And that's way I loveAnyways, not all Star Wars fans know that Luke is Darth Vader's son.One might argue that star wars is the tragedy of Darth Vader, meaning that Anakin Skywalker is the main character of Star wars, and therefore he's the protagonist, and the plot twist shouldnt be a suprise to the audience, but rather to Luke Skywalker, his son.However, Star wars was originally called the adventures of luke skywalker, and my earlier sentence could considered revisionism from a certain POV.Either way, what do you think of my earlier idea about not showing Palpatine rescue Anakin from the lava and not naming him Darth Vader? That whole idea opens up a second can of worms about what to do with Luke and Leia, Anakin's twin children, in the storyline.

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    show anakin's apparent "death" 1/2 way through the ROTS movie, but don't show his transformation to vader.
    vader appears on the scene as the new masked sith apprentice, and the jedi don't know who he is. they think anakin is dead.
    vader wears the suit for the last half of ROTS and "helps the empire hunt down and destroy.."

    --> the audience would think anakin died in ROTS, and vader was a different person (possibly a robot).
    the "I am your father" scene in ESB would reveal to the "PT" audience that anakin is still alive.

    it would be a shocking reveal to the PT audience as well as the OT audience.
    Last edited by Cobalt60; 02-25-2013 at 02:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobalt60 View Post
    show anakin's apparent "death" 1/2 way through the ROTS movie, but don't show his transformation to vader. vader appears on the scene as the new masked sith apprentice, and the jedi don't know who he is. they think anakin is dead.vader wears the suit for the last half of ROTS and "helps the empire hunt down and destroy.."--> the audience would think anakin died in ROTS, and vader was a different person (possibly a robot). the "I am your father" scene in ESB would reveal to the "PT" audience that anakin is still alive.it would be a shocking reveal to the PT audience as well as the OT audience.
    That would just totally mess up the whole storyline/timing of the movie, if the epic, climatic, Mustafar duel happens before Order 66, and, also, for a second reason, and it's not just about climatic moments in the movie or not.If the kenobi/vader duel happens before order 66, the whole storyline would have to be re-written. How would you rewrite that?

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    the timing was forced anyways. every jedi in the known universe is killed all within 5 minutes of each other in a single coordinated attack? including the attack on the jedi temple and the 'epic' mustafar, all in one night?

    -===-

    accellerate the timeline: order66 happens 1/2 way into the movie. the jedi order are destroyed by clones. kenobi escapes. windu escapes. yoda escapes, along with a handful of other Jedi Face Characters. anakin is thought to be dead. only kenobi knows what happened to him*

    * insert subplot about anakin's jealousy of obiwan. anakin accuses obiwan, re: padme. there is increasing tension between them through the movie. when order66 is happening all around them, anakin feels the increased power of the dark side -- the tension between anakin and obiwan explodes, and they fight. anakin loses and falls from sight into a lava river. (obiwan is now implicated in the fall of the jedi order: what happens next is HIS fault: anakin becomes vader, OFFSCREEN).

    -====-

    either way, there's a problem: the line in ANH "..he was a pupil of mine before he turned to E-Ville.." -- PT fans know that jedi masters can only have ONE pupil at a time, and we all know who obiwan's padawan was.
    Last edited by Cobalt60; 02-25-2013 at 03:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Borderlands View Post
    That would just totally mess up the whole storyline/timing of the movie, if the epic, climatic, Mustafar duel happens before Order 66, and, also, for a second reason, and it's not just about climatic moments in the movie or not.If the kenobi/vader duel happens before order 66, the whole storyline would have to be re-written. How would you rewrite that?
    Palpatine, after the death of Windu, tells Anakin that his final test before becoming his apprentice is to slay his old friend, Obi-Wan Kenobi. Anakin travels to Mustafar, where Obi-Wan and his battalion is refueling after the death of Grievous. Anakin attacks Obi-Wan in the plain view of the entire Grand Army, but Obi-Wan orders the clones to stand down. Obi-Wan and Anakin fight, and Obi-Wan wins like he did in the movie (except not "on the high ground"). Obi-Wan returns to the clones and they fly back to Coruscant. Scene transitions to Obi-Wan and the Jedi Council (sans Windu, Fisto, Tiin, and Kolar) discussing Anakin's fall. Yoda says he believes it has something to do with Palpatine, since the aforementioned four Masters never returned from the arrest. Obi-Wan says it doesn't matter; Anakin is dead anyway. Meanwhile, Palpatine tells the Senate of the Jedi's attack on him, and that his loyal servant Anakin Skywalker has been killed by the "Jedi traitor" Obi-Wan. Commander Cody backs up this as a witness. The Senate calls for the Jedi's heads.

    Palpatine goes down to the formation area outside the Senate tower and approaches Commander Cody, who is leading the attack on the Jedi Temple. He says that he has a new ally to help Cody and the others destroy the Jedi, and Darth Vader emerges behind him. Cody questions this, stating that Vader appears to be "another Grievous." Palpatine orders Cody not to question him, and to follow Vader's orders to the letter. Vader leads the attack on the Temple, which only a few Jedi escape. Yoda goes to confront Palpatine, while Obi-Wan and the last remaining council members strike at Vader. All the council members are killed except Obi-Wan, who escapes and rendezvouses with Yoda. They agree to go into exile, and they take a grieving Padme with them. Padme gives birth to twins and goes to live with Bail Organa, taking Leia, while Obi-Wan takes Luke to his aunt and uncle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobalt60 View Post
    the timing was forced anyways. every jedi in the known universe is killed all within 5 minutes of each other in a single coordinated attack? including the attack on the jedi temple and the 'epic' mustafar, all in one night? -===-accellerate the timeline: order66 happens 1/2 way into the movie. the jedi order are destroyed by clones. kenobi escapes. windu escapes. yoda escapes, along with a handful of other Jedi Face Characters. anakin is thought to be dead. only kenobi knows what happened to him** insert subplot about anakin's jealousy of obiwan. anakin accuses obiwan, re: padme. there is increasing tension between them through the movie. when order66 is happening all around them, anakin feels the increased power of the dark side -- the tension between anakin and obiwan explodes, and they fight. anakin loses and falls from sight into a lava river. (obiwan is now implicated in the fall of the jedi order: what happens next is HIS fault: anakin becomes vader, OFFSCREEN). -====-either way, there's a problem: the line in ANH "..he was a pupil of mine before he turned to E-Ville.." -- PT fans know that jedi masters can only have ONE pupil at a time, and we all know who obiwan's padawan was.
    Well, no, actually there were about 200 Order 66 survivors. Quoted straight from Wookipedia, this is.Maybe Obi wan could have had more than one apprentice in the PT, and the audience could just assume that Vader at the ending was not Anakin who died in the lava and was rebuilt but was actually possibly one of Obi wan's other apprentices that turned to da darkside.I thought that only a force user could kill another force user, as implied by the OT. That's why Order 66 with the mere HUMAN muggle clonetroopers (prototype stormtroopers) did! Star wars contradicts itself a lot. Anyways, how could mere men kill the Jedi? Couldn't they have escaped? Were they ambushed in large numbers, so, by the time they realized that the clonetroopers were traitors, it was too late for them? The easyness of Order 66 never ceases to amazes me. How many jedi were there around the time of order 66? Please use an EU source to confirm this to me.Well, actually, according to your theory, Order 66, in which Anakin gets burned and ambigiously this new Vader apprentice pops up very soon, happens at around the same time as the Mustafar lightsaber duel. Order 66 was supposed to be about 5 minutes. Getting Anakin and rebuilding around that time would screw up the timeline a HECK LOT!It wouldn't technically be Obi wan's fault, as most of the jedis were killed by the clones.

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