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About LinkBacksPlease do not read further if you haven't read the Darth Plagueis book or don't want to be spoiled.
Was Darth Maul ever a Sith?
Spoiler:
Please do not read further if you haven't read the Darth Plagueis book or don't want to be spoiled.
Was Darth Maul ever a Sith?
Spoiler:
Maul was a Sith Apprentice. He was Palpatine's apprentice after Palpatine killed Plagueis. Once Maul was "killed", Palpy took on Dooku as his apprentice instead
But Maul WASN'T killed. And how do you KNOW that Maul was a sith apprentice officially considering he was already serving under Sidious when Plagueis was still around? AND to my knowledge...there's never been a point in any book where Sidious named "darth" Maul as his Sith Apprentice. In fact, in that same book, it says that Maul is NOT his sith name but his given name. Which leads me to another question... Is Darth Maul's real name Maul Opress? That makes sense to me. AND I might add that the only thing that leads me to believe that Dooku actually DID become a sith is the fact that he has a sith name: Tyranus.Originally Posted by jedimom
In TPM, Palpy calls Maul his apprentice when talking to the Neimodians and calls him Darth. Just because the scene officially naming Maul as his apprentice isn't shown doesn't mean it didn't happen.
I don't think Opress is a surname. Although you never know. There is a scene in the Plagueis book about how they are spearated.
Last edited by jedimom; 06-15-2012 at 07:48 PM.
I came away from the book with the feeling that Darth Maul was just a tool- an instrument to be used by Sidious to accomplish certain... tasks. I imagine that he was fed lies, raised to fear his master and to not ask too many questions. I'd guess he was given just enough truth and kind words and information to keep him placated and no more. To Darth Sidious he was more of an employee, or maybe a weapon, but not a true Heir to the Throne. Maybe his plan would have been to pit a future prospect against his weapon of Darth Maul to prove his ability? Would seem to fit with the picture I have of Palpatine.
The book showed the Sith as powerful players like the Bush Family, or the Rockefellers or the Illuminati. Wealthy, intelligent, powerful, influential. I just dont see an orginization like that sending a red tattooed faced ninja to a black tie affair to influence political players over cocktails.
So was Darth Maul a Sith? Well, yes, for all practical purposes he was a Sith, but I think he was mostly just a Place-holder until the right protege came along.
This is fun to think about
Yes, but at that time DARTH PLAGUEIS IS STILL ALIVE! Just because you are called "darth" and "apprentice" doesn't mean you actually are one of THE 2 DARK LORDS OF THE SITH. In this same novel, there is a sith called Darth Venamis. This is what wookieepidia has to say about him: "Darth Venamis was a prospective Sith Lord of the lineage of Darth Bane. A male Bith, he was the Sith apprentice of famed starship designer Rugess Nome, unknown by the public to have been Darth Tenebrous. Tenebrous trained Venamis in violation of the Rule of Two, since he had another apprentice, Darth Plagueis. Despite Venamis's use of the Sith title, Darth, it was not legitimately bestowed upon him."
I submit to you that a similar statement could be made of Asajj Ventress, Galen Marek (Starkiller), Mara Jade, Savage Opress, AND Darth Maul! They were all at one point an assassin, an emperor's hand, a secret apprentice, or whatnot. Call it a dark jedi, call it a proseptive sith, or call it what you will; but in each of these cases, while they were serving the sith, there were already 2 Dark Lords of the Sith...and they were not one of them.
This is true. Actually, now I'm beginning to believe that this DID happen, but of course Sidious was lying to Maul...because his master (Plagueis) and him were the 2 sith...similar to the way Darth Tenebrous told Venamis that he was a sith when he wasn't...yet. He would've been if Plagueis had died instead of Tenebrous, but that didn't happen. Similarly, Darth Maul WOULD have become Sidious's true apprentice, had he not died (or at least Palpatine thought he did) around the same time as Plagueis. OR maybe Palpatine KNEW he survived but figured he wouldn't make a suitable apprentice after he got cut in half. AND maybe that's how Palpatine learned his lesson...so that's why even after Vader almost dies, he keeps him around.
Why not? He's clearly the real brother of Savage who's real last name is Opress. So therefore Maul's real last name would also be Opress. Of course he probably didn't grow up knowing this, so he wouldn't call himself that.
Exactly! He was NOT a true sith. He was an assassin. Now it's important to note that based on the new trailer for Clone Wars season 5 that...
....Darth Maul truly thinks he is sith because he calls Dooku a "Sith pretender." But of course, just because you think you are a sith lord, that doesn't mean you are one.
TPM mentions the rule of 2. But this appears not to have been adhered to strictly?
It seems to me nobody appoints one a Sith whereas the Jedi Council decided on appointment to Padawan, Jedi Knight, Jedi Master etc.
Is it just a mantle one assumes or loses by force or just more musing over Lucas inconsistencies?
Last edited by Kirk; 06-17-2012 at 03:29 PM.
Who's scruffy lookin?
I don't really understand why this is a debate...or what the confusion is all about. Darth Maul was definitely a Sith, just not a Sith Master. He was an apprentice, but a nevertheless a Sith. Same as how you have Jedi padawans, knights, and masters. They are all Jedi, just with different ranks. I see it as you are a Sith or a Jedi if you belong to the order no matter what your rank. It doesn't matter what Plagueis and Sidious thought of Maul, he was a Sith. Even though they saw him as a pawn.
Plus, he had the title of "Darth." Once you receive that title, you are a Sith. Remember in Revenge of the Sith, Sidious only called Anakin a Sith once he received his official "Darth" title and Sith name. Ventress was an apprentice, but never received the "Darth" title, so she just remains a Dark Side Acolyte. Same goes for Savage and Grievous.
And why the whole Rule of 2 debate??? Yeah, Bane established the Rule of 2. And that's how it went all of those years until it got to Palpatine, who decided the time was right for the Sith to take over. And to do that, he had to bend the established traditions of the Sith. Just because Palpatine changed things up to accomplish the ultimate Sith goal doesn't mean the Rule of 2 has been phony all along or that there are inconsistencies and plot holes in the Star Wars story. I'm sure Darth Bane would have approved, considering the circumstances. The time was right for the Sith to take over, so Palpatine had to do whatever was necessary to see it through.
Like I said, you are only a Sith if you have the "Darth" title. Having a lightsaber or using the Dark Side doesn't make you a Sith. In the whole saga, there really have been no more than three official Sith running around in the galaxy at a time. First it was Plagueis, Sidious, and Maul. Then Plagueis died, so there was just two. Then of course we all thought there was one after Maul and Obi-wan's battle, but Maul didn't die so there was still two. While Maul was away, then we got Tyranus, which made three. Now I'm just going to assume Maul dies sometime between now and Revenge of the Sith. So we'd be back to two: Sidious and Tyranus. Then Tyranus dies, and Anakin gets promoted. In the end, it goes back to the traditional Rule of Two, which of course Sidious tries to carry on with Luke.
The only thing that really bucks Sith tradition is the apprentice killing the master to become a master. And it's pretty obvious Sidious never intended to die. He was probably planning to sustain his life through the Dark Side the same way Maul did. He would live forever, and change his apprentice to whoever was the second strongest force user in the galaxy.
So do you think Darth Venamis is a true sith? And do you think if I call myself Darth Garr, that I am then a true sith?
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