Why does this happen so often?

[Dax]

I appreciate your passion but I will happily argue that Star Wars, and particularly Star Wars at retail is very much in decline.

For the record, Star Wars figures ceased production in 1986 and did not commence again till 1995. Star Wars is not the perrennial juggernaut that some might think.

For Hasbro action figures the peak for production was between 1996 and 1999 (I'm talking pure volume of units here, not range of characters). I recall sitting in the dock of a local TRU being able to pick through 82 cases of action figures for nice mint cards for my collection (that's over 1300 figures). These days a TRU might get about 10 cases for a big launch but commonly you'd expect about 4 cases of a wave per store.

Have a look at other retailers like Gentle Giant and Sideshow Collectibles. The edition numbers they produce for an item are now a shadow of their former selves.

Don't get me wrong, the tales of the demise of Star Wars are greatly exaggerated, but that's not to say the Empire is in as strong a position as they used to be. In fact, you won't see the latest series of Clone Wars on commercial TV because they just weren't interested in it. Ben 10 in comparison rates through the roof, and sells more toys. I know if I was in programming or marketing where I'd be focusing my resources.

I agree that I also think that Star Wars will be discussed still in 100 years time, it has certainly earned that status due to its impact upon the science fiction movie genre, not to mention the phenomenal achievements in retail and marketing. I can however forsee a future where Star Wars figures have periods of not being produced or available in stores. That's not necessarily an unhealthy thing either as sometimes a good rest helps to replenish a brand and allow for new developments.

Personally I think we'll see a continual though gradual decline for the next few years and depending on what happens in the media environment will impact upon the immediate future of Star Wars. I just hope we see quality and not gimmicky. I think if we see Star Wars tricked up for a 3D release then that's my "jumped the shark" benchmark. More Original Trilogy (i.e. you don't have to explain every detail and dumb things down) and less Prequels (i.e. not having every second person being a bloody Jedi or Sith) would be my tip for a strong and loyal market. Give me Thrawn and the X-Wing series and I'll lap it up.

Sorry for the segue and to bring it back on topic, you're spot on Jibba about the timings for when the board goes down. I know now just to avoid RS during this time as it never works.

[IndianaKenobi]

Okay all fair points – I wasn’t aware you were referring to Star Wars in a retail and media sense; I was referring to Star Wars as a phenomenon and mythology. I agree that Star Wars has certainly declined since 2005 (or 1999, whichever you like), and I think simply it is because Star Wars isn’t the epic movie series anymore, and thus a lot of ‘non-fan’ exposure has censed. I also agree that at least the action figure market will go on hiatus much like it did during 1986 – 1995 (or at least the movie figures). I think it is inevitable that figures of the films will no longer be produced at a certain stage – which of course doesn’t mean that if there is a television series there won’t be figures of that.

I do think that since 2005 we have been going through a sort of ‘transition phase’ (2006 – 2012?) in which Star Wars is been brought out of its status as an active theatrical series, and into the realm as a television and multi-media ‘mythology’. I think that it is apparent that Star Wars, while it will never be what it was when it was the epic movie series, is starting to establish itself in other forms of media. In a few years we will surely have a few more series’ up and running, and Star Wars will likely once again be brought back into the epic status it once held (albeit on the silver screen). I mean Star Wars as a fan base has surely not declined, and in fact I would argue that the fan base is growing at a rapid rate. I think Star Wars is simply finding its footing again. I mean, as stated above, Star Wars will surely never be just a foot-note of history, and I think that even if it doesn’t ‘bounce back’ it will be talked about for hundreds of years no-less.

But anyway back on topic...

[Ian_C]

Nope, I disagree with you on this one Jibba.

Casual fans of the films are disappearing. Many long time fans are dropping out, mostly due to disappointment with the creative direction of the saga right now. Go find an active thread in the vintage section from about 5 years ago, and look at how many people who posted in it are no longer a presence here.

The Clone Wars movie absolutely tanked at the box office. Name brand alone should have made it perform much better. The fact is, the cartoon series has a strong and loyal following - but the numbers are nowhere near what fans of the films were. It seems from retail in my area that film figures are still disappearing from shelves faster than CW stuff. This seems especially true of LEGO as well.

Hasbro's licence expires in 2018. Eight years is a long way, and I truly feel that by the end of it, sales will be almost non-existent. Will it pick up again at a later date? Hard to say. Fifteen years after ROTJ ended (ie. 1998), SW figures were very collectible and expensive, especially the original 1977/8 and POTF carded figures. Fifteen years after POTF2 (ie. right now in 2010), those figures generally can be found for less than retail. They have no staying power that has been seen as of yet.

To sum it up, there are definitely new fans coming on board due to the cartoon series, but I don't believe those numbers are greater than or even equal to the number of old fans leaving. I further don't believe many of those new fans are any more than kids and young adults who will soon move on to the 'next big thing', and showing little long term loyalty to SW.

Ian

Ian

[IndianaKenobi]

While you make a fair point, I do believe – due to the very nature of a television series and the new direction of Star Wars – that it is only natural for a fan base to ‘decrease’, while not to consider the franchise itself to be on the ‘decline’. I don’t think Star Wars will ever return to the fandom it held during the OT and PT, however at the same time I don’t think it is a bad thing it doesn’t. You will find that the fans that have ‘dropped out’ simply don’t like anything which has followed the PT and simply won’t even chance the Clone Wars. I don’t know if you watch the Television series, but I think the episodes they have been releasing as of late have been of OT quality in both story and substance. But that aside, I think that with the fan base which TCW has gathered from the original fan base is more than enough to sustain Star Wars until media evidently ceases. I also maintain that once Star Wars establishes itself as a television juggernaut with several TV series, that we will see an influx of older fans returning.

-Jib

[Ian_C]

I think the reason you can say it's on the decline is because the current direction is driving a lot of the older fans away. If it was healthy and not declining, it would be adding to the fanbase, not replacing it.

I don't watch the cartoon series, but my 8 year old does. Every time it's on, I find myself rolling my eyes constantly. Just tonight, there was an episode on with a clone named 'Jesse Hardcase'. Seriously? Never mind the lame last name. Why does a clone even HAVE a last name? There's no family lineage. Or how about Jabba's uncle 'Ziro'? From the horrible name to the nasty accent, not to mention the story of him kidnapping Jabba's belching infant son? This is good writing? I honestly find too many inconsistencies in the writing that contradict the films. It's not for me.

You're also assuming Star Wars will be a TV 'juggernaut'. Based on what? A cartoon series that has alienated the older fan base and isn't exactly setting the ratings on fire, and a live action series that's been in development for 3-4 years, with no set release date yet? Has there even been confirmation on any shows beyond this? I don't see how it will attract older fans anyway, as most that have left have done so because the new stuff just quite simply doesn't have the same 'feel' as the OT. Any TV shows will have to recapture that feeling, which means a change in creative direction from what we've been getting the last few years.

In my own personal opinion, and I mean this with no disrespect to anyone, I hope the live action series falls flat. We need SW out of the mainstream for a few years, or else it will continue to morph into Star Trek and its 28 different TV series. The public needs a break, or the oversaturation that many feel is already past a point of no return will completely ruin the name of the franchise.

These are just my opinions. I mean no disrespect to anyone. Cheers,

Ian

[IndianaKenobi]

I think the reason you can say it's on the decline is because the current direction is driving a lot of the older fans away. If it was healthy and not declining, it would be adding to the fanbase, not replacing it.

Well the days of Star Wars being the epic film franchise are gone. I don’t think there is any way that they could have developed a financially successful TV series which appealed to all of the older fans. At the end of the day Star Wars is primarily aimed at children, yet with a dose of reality that allows it to be a series for all ages – however it is primarily for children. The OT reflects what children enjoyed (or for better context an entire generation enjoyed) back in the 1970’s – 1980’s. The world is a different place now, and thus Star Wars has adapted to appeal towards its primary demographic. That will naturally detract from the original fan base. Unfortunately, unlike back in the 70’s and 80’s, the children who watch TV series rarely cherish the show into adulthood and thus do not replenish the fan base. Credit to Dave Faloni and his team, they have been able to incorporate what made the OT great into what is a children’s TV series (of course that is my opinion). I don’t necessarily think Star Wars is in decline, but rather it is simply ‘flushing out’ the fan base for a new generation of media. The older fans have their movies and merchandise, and the younger fans are enjoying the Clone Wars.

I don't watch the cartoon series, but my 8 year old does. Every time it's on, I find myself rolling my eyes constantly. Just tonight, there was an episode on with a clone named 'Jesse Hardcase'. Seriously? Never mind the lame last name. Why does a clone even HAVE a last name?

They’re two clones I believe – one called Jesse and one called Hardcase.

You're also assuming Star Wars will be a TV 'juggernaut'. Based on what? A cartoon series that has alienated the older fan base and isn't exactly setting the ratings on fire, and a live action series that's been in development for 3-4 years, with no set release date yet? Has there even been confirmation on any shows beyond this? I don't see how it will attract older fans anyway, as most that have left have done so because the new stuff just quite simply doesn't have the same 'feel' as the OT. Any TV shows will have to recapture that feeling, which means a change in creative direction from what we've been getting the last few years.

Once again, I don’t see how they are ‘alienating’ the older fan base. They are doing what they can with the restraints a children’s cartoon series has. Simple fact of the matter is if they made a series which completely bowed to the wishes of the older fans, it would kill Star Wars in my opinion. And yes there is another series confirmed beyond the Live Action Series.

-Jib

[Mike_S]

Star Wars is in decline at retail? Maybe in Australia, due to our smaller population and tendency to be 'late to the party' on many things, but according to this article, things are looking pretty good for SW in general.

http://www.actionfigureinsider.com/m...-toy-fair-2010

[Michael_Knight]

Hopefully the third season of Clone Wars doesn't exacerbate the decline.

[whendroidsfly]

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I have been getting this message everytime I try to access my saved favorite threads. It has been happening for over a month and it never happened before . What am I doing wrong?

[Spookymufu]

I've been getting the SQL ERROR the last few days off and on....it stopped for a long time, the site was slow but no errors, but yesterday the error started again.