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Thread: OT: The Last Jedi

  1. #471
    Emperor Ian_C's Avatar
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    Dec 2001
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    Caledonia, Ontario, Canada

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    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoFighter View Post

    And Ian, if you haven't seen it how do you know it sucks?
    I'm getting so tired of answering this.

    I left it "unranked" because I haven't seen it, and won't.

    How do I know it sucks? Because I have an IQ.

    How do you know a book sucks, without a visual medium accompanying it? Does anybody in the world read anymore, and if they do, can they not visualize in their minds? That's *gasp* what I did with TLJ. I read a full synopsis, and am quite capable of knowing what happens without seeing the small details (ie. effects and dialogue). Here's what I can tell you.

    I hated pretty much every new character in TFA. HATED. Poe is a smart *** who's sarcastic tones captures mid-2000's snarky attitudes, which I don't appreciate now, and will be dated in future years. Finn is outright annoying. Kylo is too whiny to be any good, whinier than even Anakin - and apparently people that dislike the PT find his whininess one of the most irritating traits of his character (go figure those same people like Kylo). Rey is the best of the bunch, but to make a character believable and have you get behind them, they have to show vulnerability somewhere. She has NO vulnerabilities. Just a glorified Disney Princess. So, the movie isn't winning me over with characters I already don't like. If you're telling me they all changed in this movie, then the inconsistencies between TFA and TLJ would irritate me even more.

    Speaking of TFA, one of the movie making tactics common these days is to infuse humor into every film, whether it makes sense or not. It ruined what otherwise were alright movies in Guardians of the Galaxy, Thor, Avengers, etc. It annoyed the **** out of me in TFA. By every single account I have read, TLJ took the comedic aspects of TFA and increased the use of them. When you just don't appreciate forced humor and gags in the wrong situations in movies, and then you know that will be a bigger presence in this one, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that I will despise its use here.

    Leia. Her space scene is just ridiculous, no matter how it looks onscreen. Yes, we have a universe where we have The Force, sound in space, and other such "real world" inconsistencies. But being blown into space, then either flying back to the ship or Force pulling herself to it (whichever interpretation you have) just goes TOO far out of pure scientific reasoning. The cold and lack of oxygen would have killed her in seconds, well before she regained consciousness and used the Force on herself. And that brings other major problems. The Force can provide heat? Air? All for a character who has never once demonstrated any Force ability other than a mental connection with her brother, and even that appeared beyond her abilities in TFA? That's Marvel Universe crap - not Star Wars.

    Luke. It doesn't matter what context you want to put this, or how it appeared onscreen - tossing his lightsaber over his shoulder for a cheap laugh is nothing but disrespectful. His entire character in this movie is disrespectful. Was he whiny in the OT? Yes. Did he want to give up sometimes when things didn't go his way? Yes. Did he actually give up, or when things looked bad, did he man up and face those challenges? Especially AFTER he had his teachings with Yoda? By ROTJ, Luke is a character that is human and has internal conflicts, but is generally at peace, and accepts that he has the weight of the universe on his shoulders. He fights his own father to the death, and stood up to the Emperor himself (a far greater adversary than Kylo). Now, his nephew kills his Jedi students, so he gets all pouty, and basically says screw it, let Kylo take over the galaxy, refusing to get involved. At least when Obi-Wan and Yoda went into exile, it was done to plan for the future - Obi-Wan oversaw the raising of Luke from afar, and Yoda was aware he had to wait for his chance to make a difference (he certainly seemed in a jovial mood when Luke showed up on Dagobah). Luke isn't planning on anything - he knows he's the last Jedi in the universe, and leaves his family and friends to fend for themselves with no plans on helping one bit. When he does decide to help, he doesn't do it in person - he Force-projects himself, and then THAT kills him? Because he was tired from the effort? That is NOT the Luke Skywalker anyone who cares about the OT knows.

    Ackbar - Really? They bring him back for fans service in TFA. So what great impact does this 30+ year veteran have in the movie? Zero. He dies OFFSCREEN when Ellie Sattler from Jurassic Park decides to put everyone onboard her ship in a suicide mission. Did you actually enjoy what they did with Ackbar?

    Chewbacca - Reduced to being used only for comic relief with Porgs. *puke*

    R2-D2 & C-3PO - Did they do anything at all?

    Let's not forget Rey's training. Anakin was The Chosen One, and Luke was the galaxy's savior. Yet both struggled with training. Both lost their first lightsaber confrontation (Anakin was beaten rather easily by Dooku, and Luke was embarrassed by Vader on Bespin). Anakin could not get the better of Obi-Wan as a trainee. Yoda showed Luke his place on Dagobah. Rey? With no formal training, she not only knows how to do Jedi mind tricks, fly the Falcon, and beat Kylo in TFA, but now apparently she can knock Luke on his *** in the beginning stages of training? And people deny she's a Mary Sue character? Like I said, to get behind her, she needs to have some weakness, ANY weakness. She has none, and just makes Luke, the guy who took down Vader and overthrew the Emperor and the entire Empire, look weak.

    Then we can mention the social justice warrior tone of the movie. When did Star Wars become a representative for PETA? Save The Whales becomes Save The Whatever-those-things are. Without seeing it, was the Finn/Rose dynamic really enjoyable, or necessary?

    What was the point of Captain Phasma again? To get tossed into a trash compactor on an exploding planet, to somehow survive and escape with no explanation, only to get tossed down a shaft again? Will she somehow survive to Episode IX too? Will it become a running gag in the series (and I've already explained my revulsion for the whole gag concept itself in SW)?

    Finally, Snoke. I don't care if they explain his backstory. I don't need to know everything (same with Rey, actually). However, when you have a guy who is clearly intended to be the main antagonist pulling the strings for the First order suddenly killed off in the middle movie of a trilogy, it disrupts the flow of the saga. It is poor storytelling. Justify it if you wish, but to me, it comes across as Rian Johnson didn't like the character, so he got rid of him in a cheap way.

    So, tell me. Without seeing it, do I have any of the FACTS of what happened incorrect? If those facts are indeed correct, then the story outright offends me as a Star Wars fan.

    Does that answer the question?

    Ian
    BACK FROM THE DEAD

  2. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_C View Post
    I'm getting so tired of answering this.

    I left it "unranked" because I haven't seen it, and won't.

    How do I know it sucks? Because I have an IQ.

    How do you know a book sucks, without a visual medium accompanying it? Does anybody in the world read anymore, and if they do, can they not visualize in their minds? That's *gasp* what I did with TLJ. I read a full synopsis, and am quite capable of knowing what happens without seeing the small details (ie. effects and dialogue). Here's what I can tell you.

    I hated pretty much every new character in TFA. HATED. Poe is a smart *** who's sarcastic tones captures mid-2000's snarky attitudes, which I don't appreciate now, and will be dated in future years. Finn is outright annoying. Kylo is too whiny to be any good, whinier than even Anakin - and apparently people that dislike the PT find his whininess one of the most irritating traits of his character (go figure those same people like Kylo). Rey is the best of the bunch, but to make a character believable and have you get behind them, they have to show vulnerability somewhere. She has NO vulnerabilities. Just a glorified Disney Princess. So, the movie isn't winning me over with characters I already don't like. If you're telling me they all changed in this movie, then the inconsistencies between TFA and TLJ would irritate me even more.

    Speaking of TFA, one of the movie making tactics common these days is to infuse humor into every film, whether it makes sense or not. It ruined what otherwise were alright movies in Guardians of the Galaxy, Thor, Avengers, etc. It annoyed the **** out of me in TFA. By every single account I have read, TLJ took the comedic aspects of TFA and increased the use of them. When you just don't appreciate forced humor and gags in the wrong situations in movies, and then you know that will be a bigger presence in this one, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that I will despise its use here.

    Leia. Her space scene is just ridiculous, no matter how it looks onscreen. Yes, we have a universe where we have The Force, sound in space, and other such "real world" inconsistencies. But being blown into space, then either flying back to the ship or Force pulling herself to it (whichever interpretation you have) just goes TOO far out of pure scientific reasoning. The cold and lack of oxygen would have killed her in seconds, well before she regained consciousness and used the Force on herself. And that brings other major problems. The Force can provide heat? Air? All for a character who has never once demonstrated any Force ability other than a mental connection with her brother, and even that appeared beyond her abilities in TFA? That's Marvel Universe crap - not Star Wars.

    Luke. It doesn't matter what context you want to put this, or how it appeared onscreen - tossing his lightsaber over his shoulder for a cheap laugh is nothing but disrespectful. His entire character in this movie is disrespectful. Was he whiny in the OT? Yes. Did he want to give up sometimes when things didn't go his way? Yes. Did he actually give up, or when things looked bad, did he man up and face those challenges? Especially AFTER he had his teachings with Yoda? By ROTJ, Luke is a character that is human and has internal conflicts, but is generally at peace, and accepts that he has the weight of the universe on his shoulders. He fights his own father to the death, and stood up to the Emperor himself (a far greater adversary than Kylo). Now, his nephew kills his Jedi students, so he gets all pouty, and basically says screw it, let Kylo take over the galaxy, refusing to get involved. At least when Obi-Wan and Yoda went into exile, it was done to plan for the future - Obi-Wan oversaw the raising of Luke from afar, and Yoda was aware he had to wait for his chance to make a difference (he certainly seemed in a jovial mood when Luke showed up on Dagobah). Luke isn't planning on anything - he knows he's the last Jedi in the universe, and leaves his family and friends to fend for themselves with no plans on helping one bit. When he does decide to help, he doesn't do it in person - he Force-projects himself, and then THAT kills him? Because he was tired from the effort? That is NOT the Luke Skywalker anyone who cares about the OT knows.

    Ackbar - Really? They bring him back for fans service in TFA. So what great impact does this 30+ year veteran have in the movie? Zero. He dies OFFSCREEN when Ellie Sattler from Jurassic Park decides to put everyone onboard her ship in a suicide mission. Did you actually enjoy what they did with Ackbar?

    Chewbacca - Reduced to being used only for comic relief with Porgs. *puke*

    R2-D2 & C-3PO - Did they do anything at all?

    Let's not forget Rey's training. Anakin was The Chosen One, and Luke was the galaxy's savior. Yet both struggled with training. Both lost their first lightsaber confrontation (Anakin was beaten rather easily by Dooku, and Luke was embarrassed by Vader on Bespin). Anakin could not get the better of Obi-Wan as a trainee. Yoda showed Luke his place on Dagobah. Rey? With no formal training, she not only knows how to do Jedi mind tricks, fly the Falcon, and beat Kylo in TFA, but now apparently she can knock Luke on his *** in the beginning stages of training? And people deny she's a Mary Sue character? Like I said, to get behind her, she needs to have some weakness, ANY weakness. She has none, and just makes Luke, the guy who took down Vader and overthrew the Emperor and the entire Empire, look weak.

    Then we can mention the social justice warrior tone of the movie. When did Star Wars become a representative for PETA? Save The Whales becomes Save The Whatever-those-things are. Without seeing it, was the Finn/Rose dynamic really enjoyable, or necessary?

    What was the point of Captain Phasma again? To get tossed into a trash compactor on an exploding planet, to somehow survive and escape with no explanation, only to get tossed down a shaft again? Will she somehow survive to Episode IX too? Will it become a running gag in the series (and I've already explained my revulsion for the whole gag concept itself in SW)?

    Finally, Snoke. I don't care if they explain his backstory. I don't need to know everything (same with Rey, actually). However, when you have a guy who is clearly intended to be the main antagonist pulling the strings for the First order suddenly killed off in the middle movie of a trilogy, it disrupts the flow of the saga. It is poor storytelling. Justify it if you wish, but to me, it comes across as Rian Johnson didn't like the character, so he got rid of him in a cheap way.

    So, tell me. Without seeing it, do I have any of the FACTS of what happened incorrect? If those facts are indeed correct, then the story outright offends me as a Star Wars fan.

    Does that answer the question?

    Ian


    I'll be getting a lot of mileage out of this gif.

  3. #473
    Emperor Ian_C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Caledonia, Ontario, Canada

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    THAT was a response?

    A gif?

    Apparently, my points couldn't be refuted if that was the best answer.

    Speaking of Hamill, he also didn't like how Luke was portrayed.

    Ian
    BACK FROM THE DEAD

  4. #474
    It's a nicely laid out argument, Ian. My main disappointment with the film was the disregard not only for the OT but for the film that came before it. And I wasn't even a fan of TFA! JJ introduced new plotlines and characters and Rian just massacred all of it. I get that you want to try something new, but not at the expense of everything that came before it. Again, I didn't like the previous film, but there is no convincing way you can ever tell me that the events of TFA were intended to lead to the events in TLJ. I had hope for TLJ because I was willing to give TFA a pass as a film meant to simply lay down a story. And now there's no compelling reason for me to see the next one.

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