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Thread: After watching the PT again

  1. #41
    ^^^ You did get a teen-Anakin… in AOTC. And look how well that turned out LOL

    I dug that George stuck to his vision and had a twinkie moppet Anakin instead of an older teen Anakin in TPM.

    Of course, I also suspected that aside from his insistent that he was interested in showing the psychological damage of a young child being torn away from his only parent, George also really wanted to cover his bases of appealing to as wide a demographic as possible. The shrewd businessman in George is always ever-present.

    Jake’s Anakin could have worked— and even worked well, had George been a competent director. Jake wasn’t the problem; if anyone cared to give him a little time and a chance Jake’s actually a very natural actor. I could see why they went with him. He’s able to display these very subtle gestures, almost awkward and completely lacks self-consciousness— common characteristics a 9-yo would display. A lot of child-actors overdo it, being overly theatrical, rehearsed and self-conscious… Jake displayed none of that. Sadly, his deliveries are as stiff as they come. But that’s entirely George’s fault. If talented adult actors like Liam and Ewan couldn’t make the dialogue work, how was a 7yo going to be able to succeed with George’s direction? And I would gladly take Jake’s Anakin anyday to Hayden’s overly-hammy, try-hard, shouty Anakin anyday...

    And I would gladly take Jar Jar anyday over the pointless, overly-obnoxious Finn. Jar Jar as a character behaves accordingly and contributes to the storyline. The problem once again like Anakin, was the execution. Blame that all on George. Finn as a character, makes absolutely no sense within the context of the story and in the SW-universe. He doesn’t even behave remotely as sonnet who's only ever known life as a soldier of an extremely fascist regime: He’s the undisciplined, bumbling Earthling that fell into a GFFA— complete with current pop culture slangs, to appeal to the lowest common denominator in the audience. Finn wins the worst SW character ever.
    Last edited by farmer; 02-15-2017 at 12:31 PM.

  2. #42
    I always get so nostalgic this time of year for TPM. I was a still a teen then and TPM was the one that hooked me onto SW. 18 years later I still think it’s one of the strongest and most original vision of a SW episode— just brimming with so much potential.

    TPM was such a sunny, optimistic and genuinely inspiring vision. I totally felt George’s passion seeping through in this offering. Of course, the end result was really anything but inspiring LOL Coming to peace with just how weak storytelling from George (not to mention how ridiculously illogical his direction is LOL), I’ve come to appreciate this film more and more as the years go by. Aside from the warm fuzzy grip of nostalgia, TPM genuinely felt from the heart. The tone is hilariously outdated, like some Norman Rockwell 1950s sheen when kids still shout “yipppieeeeeee!”… But that’s part of its charm and warmth for me: It didn’t pander to the current, disposable current take of pop culture at the time: George was blissfully still off doing his own thing-- and totally believing in his work. Everything after TPM was completely, cynically, back-to-business to pander to the lowest common denominator. (RO is such a great surprise at how competent and directional SW can be again. But… TPM maintains this sense of innocence, of wonder, of the unknown, that’s very much in the spirit of the first SW— if only in concept, that I can’t help but be drawn to it.)

    I get that there’s maybe only a few here that appreciate TPM as much as I do-- maybe even only a handful in all of fandom LOL I always watch TPM around this time of year for that air of nostalgia, and escape into a time when SW did genuinely feel fresh and looked visionary— if only in its design, and the potential for something great and exciting again.

  3. #43
    well, I bet there's a lot more than you'd believe, to many I believe it's a li'l secret they keep. I love it, saw it 5X in the theatre, and when I worked nights back then, I can't count how many times I rewatched it at about midnight (once available on DVD) unwinding from work, and all the days I spent on N64 playing all 4 of the epic, amazing games released in that era. Remember as big as the SW universe was then, it was very small by today's standard & material. It's "cool" to shun & claim dislike for the PT nowadays (at least here, and asst. junk news feeds) so I'd expect little positive feedback. Of any people I know or have met, or discuss this w/ in person, all are resoundingly positive. Online, or w/ a platform, an audience, etc. it's always negative. You'd think such an awful film woulda tanked at the BO. I mean, if a film sux that's what happens, right? ....I guess not. Being a fan from literally SW ground zero/day one, I'm more than pleased w/ the life & respect that SW has these days (it really took off during the SE release era, then the PT era just blew it up), we are truly blessed fans.
    Last edited by jpolli666; 02-21-2017 at 10:12 AM.

  4. #44
    I think I'm probably the biggest TPM apologist in the history of these boards. one of them, anyways.
    but I've always just centered on the plot.. trying to "make something of it" (with powerpoint?) .. that kind of thing.

    when it comes to the sheer 'spectacle' , I agree with farmer, TPM was a special time in SW history -- it FELT like a moment of 'endless possibilities', back in 1999.
    I remember getting chills from watching the 'tone poems' when they aired on TV;
    I remember seeing DArth Maul's face on the cover of some magazine for the very first time, it looked completely foreign. and utterly intriguing. (I couldn't take my eyes off it);
    seeing 'x-wing engines' roped to a 'ben hur' chariot (!?) -- it was brilliant. and original. (as a life-long SW fan, I had never even THOUGHT of such a thing).

    it was like a kid pouring over Fantasy images , in Epic Illustrated Magazine. (or Heavy Metal Magazine):
    taken out of context, EVERYTHING appeared wildly original, and utterly 'fantastic' (to borrow the literal definition of that word).

    unfortunately, (and maybe this is just 'me' -- the way I watch movies), when I sit down in a theater, the spectacle-of-trappings is lost for that moment, BECAUSE I'm only analyzing it for the plot.
    it's the same with any movie.
    on the first viewing, the plot is really all that matters to me.. and later, on subsequent viewings, I pay more attention to the in-universe 'trappings'.

    in the case of TPM, I lined up for a midnight showing ... and afterwards, walking out of the theater at 3AM , I thought I had probably missed something. it left me wanting.
    I slept it off, and attended a matinee ASAP -- roughly 36 hours later. (I still have that ticket stub on my fridge).

    this time, I soaked in every detail of the 'trappings' of GL's art department , and it felt INFINITELY more satisfying.
    I took selfish pleasure in simply "visiting tattooine" again, after 20 years -- to simply just immerse myself in GL's universe again -- regardless of the plot. this is where TPM shines.

    ^^ with a lot of movies, I have to admit, I never get that far. I watch the movie once, with an open mind.. and if the "plot" doesn't hold water for me, then I often say 'meh', and move on to the next one, and just don't get around to that all-important second viewing.

    example: after BvS, I was like.. "I'm good" (LOL). I really didn't need to see that thing again -- LOL -- I had seen enough, based on 'plot' alone..
    ..but with half the internet defending that turkey like it was grandma's home recipe (and the other half railing against them), I took the time to watch the director's cut. and it surprised me.

    every shot looks like a still painting, almost perfectly composed. I found myself hitting 'pause' on the blu-ray, just to appreciate the composition of the shots. (regardless of plot and story). this is where BvS shines.

    ZAck Snyder should be a still-photographer. I think he'd be really good at it. (but I would never have realized this fact, if I hadn't gotten past the weak plot).

    just saying : I think a lot of people formed their opinions of TPM, before they got past that elusive second viewing.
    instead, they formed their opinions early, and quickly joined the 'chorus-line' to make fun of Jar-Jar.

    (at this point, every subsequent viewing, would ONLY reinforce their hatred of jar-jar , BECAUSE they formed their opinions too early -- they never got a chance to appreciate the 'tapestry' of the thing).

    NOW we've got an entire movement of (millennial?) SW fans, advocating something called "Machete Order" -- (google it) -- they want to ignore TPM completely and cut it completely out of the running order (because somehow AOTC is a 'better' film). LOL
    Last edited by Cobalt60; 02-21-2017 at 12:33 PM.
    "Is there anyone on this ship, who even remotely, looks like Satan?" -- James Kirk, U.S.S. Enterprise.

  5. #45
    oh man, Epic was an awesome mag, I found my first issue at a flea market when I was kid, love the style of that publication!! It's the times we live in, people making abrupt decisions prior to any real exposure, on top of millennial era spoils and being congenitally unappreciative. We still see it months in advance of any of the new SW films, man-if only someone would take this as a bet, we'd be stinking' rich. It's even more wicked w/ music - a band will release a song, etc and someone will play it for a minute on their phone or computer, and determine "it's no good", and that's it. No quality in the sound, no justice given for listening quality, no attempt to live with it a few spins, no "it's better than nothing" approach, it just stinks. I've said b4, if Jar Jar is the problem you have w/ this film and how you form your opinion, your issues supersede anything this film potentially offers, he's just not that prevalent. Even if this topic continues here again for the umpteenth time, still love the film.
    Last edited by jpolli666; 02-22-2017 at 06:59 AM.

  6. #46
    Yes! Those podracers and warmachines of The Trade Federation are brilliantly designed, so instantly SW in their aesthetics— but were so distinctively fresh and new. Just watching those trailers again is inspiring. Sadly, it seems like the majority of fandom as well as the masses only ever want to see the same old same old, time and time again of SW… Just look at that promo shot for the Han movie— again, with the Falcon trapping… Zzzzzzzzz….

    Maul was an exquisite presence in TPM— equally feral and impossibly regal, just elegant and lethal: HIs igniting his double-edge saber in that pose is instantly monumental. And such a perfect bridge in connecting the mythology of the SW generations. George and his art department brought this tidal wave of cultural richness to SW that was only hinted at in the OT. And George was wise to keep Maul silent, restrained and only briefly seen; It made you want to see more of him: He was the Greta Garbo of SW. How did George go from such a high design in Maul to Grievous— an overwrought, cluttered mess that resembled a Bionicle toy …?????? Pandering to the lowest common denominator….sigh… These days, Maul is just boring: He’s so ridiculously overexposed and just won’t die. His presence is a tired, tacky jgimmick. Like the Sequel.

    With how blatantly lazy and corporate TFA is (and if you’ve read the synopsis for the supposedly TLJ trailer, it’s hilarious how similar to ESB it is LOL Most likley fake, but whoever imagined it can’t even bother to try something different than more OT-purgitary), admittedly even AOTC has absolutely taken on this new charm— even if it still remains a total hot mess. It’s not quite at the level of OTT hot mess that Showgirls or the 1980 Flash Gordon are-- maybe if someone added an N'Sync soundtrack to AOTC it may just reach that level of cheese LOL, but it’s on that level of a hot mess that’s also fun now because it’s so much more charming in light of the color-by-corporate-numbers TFA.

    So much thought and beauty in the worldbuilding of TPM. It really was such a visual feast of that “more civilized era” that Ben laments on in ANH…

  7. #47
    ehhhhh, how could you NOT see the ESB comparisons coming for VIII months ago?!, and of course fans want to make a mock trailer in that vein, that's what they do-they hope to be this great visionary who figured it all out. Fans are ALREADY whining about the Solo film... REALLY?!?! ugh, painful man, really it's just insanity. If anyone trains anyone in the Force it's of course gotta be likened to Yoda/Luke, and, well-so what? Funny thing is, all the naysayers and "this sucks" gang, will all be the first in line to see it so they can be the first to tell us all just how awful it is... too funny, actually.

  8. #48
    I have absolutely no interest in this Han movie and won’t be seeing it until it’s available online. By the time of ROTS, I had completely lost interest in the Prequel and never saw this story in the theatre. I don’t live and breath SW— so no SW doesn’t bother me the least. If there’s a good SW story that comes along— and I thought RO was very good, then great. If there aren’t— I’ll just enjoy the older ones I like. I will gladly take quality over quantity any day.

    And yes, yes— ESB is the best SW, etc etc. Now all these people need to let it go and open their minds to new possibilities for what SW is a capable of rather than continue to dwell in this ever shrinking little black hole of SW trappings that revolve around ESB/ the OT. Of course Han/Harrison was good in ANH and ESB, but nothing will convince me that a feature story on young Han will be interesting at this point. It’s so tiresome: Han, Lando, Chewbacca, that damn Falcon again… LOL… Zzzzzzzz... I get that Disney needs to exploit the OT nostalgia— it’s just business. And I don’t care for that business.

    Thandie Newton is the only spark of ray I feel for this Han story: Loved loved loved her in RocknRolla… But I’ll bet she’ll end up just being the voice of some forgettable CG character— like what they did with Lupita: instead of having this stunning, gorgeous women to look at, we’re given a forgettable orange turtle that adds absolutely nothing to an already redundant story— just to have a Cantina scene, I guess...? Zzzzzz.
    Last edited by farmer; 02-22-2017 at 03:01 PM.

  9. #49
    Having indulged in my annual TPM excursion, I dug up The Clone Wars movie next— and I have to say, the careful, thoughtful execution of this little-appreciated feature is actually much stronger than I remembered. Within the limits of budget, time, and even towing the line of the unfortunate juvenile storytelling directions forged by the Prequel, this “kiddie” feature feels more refined and polished than its Prequel foundation. It really is a solid offering, and adds so much in terms of potential to the SW lexicon.

    Things start to fall apart towards the end with the sloppy pacing— when Amidala (With the most annoying voice) gets involved with Jabba’s uncle… Jabba’s uncle LOL As if things weren’t bad enough with Jabba’s baby being the main catalyst for the story LOOOOL

    A rather weak storyline line aside that involves Jabba, the action sets are strong— stronger than any of the ones from the Prequel. And even as bound by a kiddie-tone as it was, it managed to pull off a more sophisticated air than TPM’s hopelessly juvenile one. It’s just too bad the limited budget seeps through for this movie to remind you that its more of an afterthought to the SW series than a premiere feature. Had the budget been more generous, the animation more advanced, all the action sets would be killer.

    I couldn’t help but imagine the momentum of all these TCW action sets injected into the lethargic TPM’s ones: The furiously paced and totally fun Republic’s assault on the monastery injected into the none-event of the Naboo invasion (not a single casualty nor a scratch on the Italian marble!); The character developing of the Dooku/Anakin desert duel would give a much needed life and purpose to the blink-and-you’ll-miss one of Maul/Qui Gonn one on Tatooine (Anakin conjuring a sandstorm was an admittedly impressive visual); The sly and gorgeous Ventress/Obi-Wan duelling the monastery ending on a bridge by moonlight would be a massive improvement for the non-sensical Duel of the Fates (an impossibly colossal power plant with a bottomless pit right next to the Queen’s palace LOOOL); and the opening battle sequence, complete with a droid army and a shield generator plot point would improve the annoying, cartoony, slapstick Gungan battle beyond bounds— I mean, anything would be an improvement over what George showed of the Gungan battle…

    Maybe even TCW team had this in mind all along: How to simply tell a better story than George’s Prequel, all the while respectfully building on what he established— unlike the current state of Disney’s SW.

    (If TCW was a live-action feature, Millie Bobby Brown would make an ideal Ahsoka, and Lupita the ideal Ventress [although with current PC-culture, casting a Black woman as a villain would likely trigger outrage and boycott LOL]. Zoe Kravitz also has the ideal look to me with a face structure that strongly resembles the animated Ventress, but she’s too short physically. Recasting Anakin would also be preferable: Maybe James Norton? Callum Turner? … 10 years ago I would go with Eddie Redmayne for his Black Death role.)
    Last edited by farmer; 02-24-2017 at 12:32 PM.

  10. #50
    I agree with most of that. I only enjoy AOTC more than TPM because of the overall story and action. The romance was mediocre. And there was no need to have Anakin and Padme never see each other in ten years. They could have at least run into each other from time to time. At least that would have kept the flame alive. Anakin was very immature and creepy. But the scene where he starts rubbing Padme's arm was the worst. "Everything here soft and smooth" blah blah. To me, the best scene between them was the picnic by the waterfalls. That's when Anakin starts to reveal that he believes in dictatorships, and they also flirt some. That's a little more believable.

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