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Thread: Proof card collectors: Do any 65 back characters exist on 77/79 back proofs?

  1. #1

    Proof card collectors: Do any 65 back characters exist on 77/79 back proofs?

    Need some help and discussion guys! This never even crossed my mind until today when I was discussing this subject with Chris and Shawn (who incidentally focus on figures first released on 65 back cards) but I haven't seen any 77/79 back proofs of ROTJ figures that were first released on 65 backs?

    After reading Max and Ben's proof website, it mentions that many 65 back characters can be found on later ROTJ proofs:

    ROTJ Proofs





    However the only 65back ROTJ characters on 77 back proofs that I can recall were in fact production like signed samples, the two I am thinking of are owned by JohnA (Biker Scout) and Mattias (Chief Chirpa) so is the information on swproofcards.com incorrect or do some exist?

    The complete list of 65 back figures is (I think) as follows:


    • Nein Nunb
    • Klaatu
    • Admiral Ackbar
    • Chief Chirpa *signed production like 77 back sample exists*
    • Logray
    • Gamorrean Guard
    • Rebel Commando
    • Bib Fortuna
    • Biker Scout *signed production like 77 back sample exists*
    • Lando Skiff
    • General Madine
    • Ree Yees
    • Weequay
    • ERG
    • Squidhead
    • Boushh
    • Luke Jedi

    Perhaps I can edit this list to show what is out there, be it a real proof (if any exist) or some more signed samples like the Chirpa and Biker Scout mentioned if we get some replies on this?

    Interestingly those signed samples look just like these earlier released characters on 77 back "proofs" shown on the Archive:

    Greedo:



    Return of the Jedi 77-Back Greedo Proof Card - Star Wars Collectors Archive

    Snaggletooth:



    Return of the Jedi 77-Back Snaggletooth Proof Card - Star Wars Collectors Archive


    Does anyone know the origin of these signed sample cards? Were they all found in a single QC sample find? They remind me very much of the Palitoy unused backers that sometimes get discussed (of course the signature makes them much more special!)

    JohnA wrote this on his archive entry:

    It is my belief that this card is not a printer's proof so much as it is a signed production sample. I believe that one of each cardback being printed at the time would have been pulled from the line, examined, and signed off on to maintain quality control.
    So would that mean that no real (common) 77 back proof exists for the 65 back characters? Only the signed QC sample cards?

    I hope Mattias can include a picture of his 77 back Chief Chirpa signed sample as well and this thread can generate some interesting discussion (and perhaps some new information and pictures!) as I really enjoyed discussing this today with Chris and Shawn!
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  2. #2
    Interesting Topic Joe. I for one am very interested to hear anybodys views on this!

  3. #3
    This whole topic dawned on me last night. I've seen pics of 65A, 65B and 65C proofs for the first 65 characters, but never (other than the Chirpa and Scout that Joe mentioned) a 77 or 79 for the 65 characters.

    I can see an argument both for and against as to why a 77/79 proof wouldn't exist (lack of different front, already had 65 characters on hand so why the need for a new 77/79, etc). However, it doesn't add up when you consider most 77 era characters also had 79 proofs as well.

    I would love some more info if there's any available.
    Looking for: Rebel Commando & Endor Forest Ranger pre-production items, vintage Star Wars toothbrushes, and, yes, Jar Jar pre-production items.
    Check out: Vintage Dental Health

  4. #4
    This is very intresting Joe . I have a Lando Skiff 65A cut from a sheet


    Then i have a Hand cut Lumat proof ( Moc up ) . This proof has no back , as the back is just the back of the picture off Lumat .
    The front with the Logo is hand cut from what i first thought was a proof card for another figure . But when i checked the number on the front it is the number that Lumat has even later on 93670. Then afte i took the pictures i find out that there is a back on the front that was used . The back is..... a 65A or B . I can see the line of the Chewie bandarol and in the top i can see the stormtrooper and Col...

    So this was cut from a 65A or B Lumat proof card But Lumat did not turn up before the 79B cardback And was only sold with the Anakin Offer on the front , that this this Proof also is missing .

    Now that i whrite this i'm begginding to think that maybe all the new ROTJ figures that came on 65 and 79 backs where made and Kenner knew that they where gonna make them so they printed the proof cards for them along with the ones that was ready for the 65 backs ? I mean the next step in the evolution of the figures are the L17 And they are all in some way not like the "old " Kenner . I mean that all came on POTF cards and not on ROTJ .

    I don't relly know the time frame that was from the 65 to the 79 back ? But we have just found out that the 41B and C where releashed on the same time . http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1076259/ Jump to the last page :-)

    I don't know , what do you guys think ? One big thing that stands against this is that there are no other cards found from the 79 back figures with the 65 back on them . Just the one i got here .

    The pictures where taken before i found out that it is a proof card the frondt is cút from .


    The back


    The front that i can lift a bit
    Last edited by Soren; 02-17-2012 at 03:21 PM.
    Looking for Leia Organa and Bespin proofs . See my WTB / FT /FS here :
    http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1104942/#post19299543
    My feedback http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1066729/

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Joe_O View Post
    I hope Mattias can include a picture of his 77 back Chief Chirpa signed sample as well and this thread can generate some interesting discussion (and perhaps some new information and pictures!)
    Ask, and ye shall recieve


    At one point I also had the Snaggletooth, I noticed the COO on the proofs were different. The Snaggletooth is Made in Spain and the Chirpa is Made in Mexico. This led me to believe that vendors from different countries was asked by Kenner to send them proofs/cardbacks for QC inspection. They are all signed by the same US guy at the same day. Maybe this was done all the time automatically, and it's just coincidence these samples have survived.

    To try to answer (or more discuss my theory) the original question, I dont really see the point in making new 77/79 proofs for the 65bk characters, the true proofs were the Cromalins and those are one-sided only, so the 77/79 back only got a few Cromalins (non character specific). You have to remember that the items we call Proof Cards were "only" used for photo samples, toy fair mock-ups and weren't made for proofing. The back were proofed on the Cromalin. So when the new wave of figures (77/79) was done, Kenner only needed to make proofs for those characters, and then in the production of all toys you only used the new back a new printing plate. I doubt the back was especially important to dealers and toy fair visitors, at least not as much as it is today to us. So I don't think 77/79bk proof cards exist for the first 65bk characters because there was no real need for such cards. Besides the production-like QC signed samples, but since I think they were more vendor samples I dont even think they are true proof cards, at least not by our definition.

    Sören,
    Your Lumat is a hand made mock-up and can't really be compared to a proof card, sure it's made by using a proof card but not a proof card per se. It's likely the closest thing we'll come to a "true" Mechanical in our hobby, read more about Mechanicals discussion here: http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1024359/


    Maybe I confused things more, but it's an interesting topic so let's keep the thoughts coming

    Mattias

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattias_Rendahl View Post
    Ask, and ye shall recieve


    At one point I also had the Snaggletooth, I noticed the COO on the proofs were different. The Snaggletooth is Made in Spain and the Chirpa is Made in Mexico. This led me to believe that vendors from different countries was asked by Kenner to send them proofs/cardbacks for QC inspection. They are all signed by the same US guy at the same day. Maybe this was done all the time automatically, and it's just coincidence these samples have survived.

    To try to answer (or more discuss my theory) the original question, I dont really see the point in making new 77/79 proofs for the 65bk characters, the true proofs were the Cromalins and those are one-sided only, so the 77/79 back only got a few Cromalins (non character specific). You have to remember that the items we call Proof Cards were "only" used for photo samples, toy fair mock-ups and weren't made for proofing. The back were proofed on the Cromalin. So when the new wave of figures (77/79) was done, Kenner only needed to make proofs for those characters, and then in the production of all toys you only used the new back a new printing plate. I doubt the back was especially important to dealers and toy fair visitors, at least not as much as it is today to us. So I don't think 77/79bk proof cards exist for the first 65bk characters because there was no real need for such cards. Besides the production-like QC signed samples, but since I think they were more vendor samples I dont even think they are true proof cards, at least not by our definition.

    Sören,
    Your Lumat is a hand made mock-up and can't really be compared to a proof card, sure it's made by using a proof card but not a proof card per se. It's likely the closest thing we'll come to a "true" Mechanical in our hobby, read more about Mechanicals discussion here: http://forum.rebelscum.com/t1024359/


    Maybe I confused things more, but it's an interesting topic so let's keep the thoughts coming

    Mattias
    I totally see your point about the production (printing) process of printing the proof cards. And that's why I can see why they didn't print the 77 versions for the 65 characters. Especially since the front didn't change. And that makes total sense from a print production perspective. Which lends reason for the 65C being produced since it had a different front.

    However, that doesn't 100% fit either. And the reason I say that is that there are 65 Revenge Proofs too. Which the only thing different on them is the obvious non-blacked out Ewoks and the less obvious Revenge/Return text. I could see more of a back of the card proof with the 65 Revenge than the front as well, but yet there are still some out there of the 65 Revenge's. Again, JohnA's great Scout proof run on the archive is another fine example of this.

    And again, from Max's proof site:



    It's also curious when you start adding up that a lot (if not most or all) of the 77 back characters show up with 79 proofs as well.
    Looking for: Rebel Commando & Endor Forest Ranger pre-production items, vintage Star Wars toothbrushes, and, yes, Jar Jar pre-production items.
    Check out: Vintage Dental Health

  7. #7
    Lando Skiff does.I nearly snagged it years ago from Steve York,but someone else got in there before me.

    Those were the days i had ammassed this:

    Lando Calrissian in Skiff Guard Disguise Packaging Prototype Series - Star Wars Collectors Archive
    Vintage toys ,prop and autograph collector.

    Also have a liking for TPM line

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisB View Post
    However, that doesn't 100% fit either. And the reason I say that is that there are 65 Revenge Proofs too. Which the only thing different on them is the obvious non-blacked out Ewoks and the less obvious Revenge/Return text. I could see more of a back of the card proof with the 65 Revenge than the front as well, but yet there are still some out there of the 65 Revenge's. Again, JohnA's great Scout proof run on the archive is another fine example of this.
    Before the Return 65ABC's, there were offerless Revenge proofs made for the existing characters (SW & ES. Only two sheets survived as we know, but some kind of printing plate with non blacked out ewoks and Revenge text was already made, so I think that was simply used by coincidence or laziness. Again, especially since the proofs cards mostly seem to have been made for toy fair catalog photography etc, it in those pics only the fronts are visiable, I don't think the backs on these proof cards was important at that time at all and most of this things just happened because it was likely the fronts that were important for the purpose these were made. I'm not the right guy to discuss when Revenge was changed to Return or when the ewoks was decided to kept secret, so from that point of view I cant answer, but I totally see how it could happen from a pre-production point of view.

    Mattias

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by _Lee_ View Post
    Lando Skiff does.I nearly snagged it years ago from Steve York,but someone else got in there before me.
    Lee, does a 77 or 79 proof card exist for Lando skiff? Or did you mean one with a Revenge back?

    Mattias

  10. #10
    Not sure what I was on about there after re-reading that.
    Carry on. Don't mind me.
    Last edited by Joshua_A; 02-17-2012 at 11:01 PM. Reason: Say No To Drugs.

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